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JON'S SECRET HIDEOUT KEEP OUT
Topic Started: Apr 26 2018, 10:38 AM (680 Views)
jon-nyc
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Interesting article on the Harris/Klein discussion.

His best point is near the bottom, about the Mexican-American judge. It would have been an interesting thing for Harris to bring up to Klein.


https://quillette.com/2018/05/28/sam-harris-not-ezra-klein-one-making-space-people-colour/

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Great piece. Googling him, I see he was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer several weeks ago. :( 30 years old. Great voice. I'll probably get his book.

Interesting that he's drawn inspiration from Amy Chua, professor at Yale law. She also inspired JD Vance, the author of Hillbilly Elegy. I enjoyed that one recently, at the recommendation from the What Are You Reading Now thread.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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I read Chua's book way back when, on how differential outcomes cause ethnic hatred. World on Fire, I think. It was informed by her family's experience as ethnic Chinese in the Philippines. Great book.


By the way, speaking of the Harris/Klein kerfuffle, Richard Haier (the intelligence researcher who tried to get a piece published at Vox defending Harris) is interviewed on Peterson's most recent podcast. It's good.
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Horace
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The Richard Haier interview was pretty good. Too bad about the audio quality.

Tyler Cowen was on the most recent Ezra Klein podcast. Decent interview, though significantly dumbed down compared to a Sam Harris discussion. I didn't like Cowen as much as I expected to. A couple times he asserted some politically correct conclusions using terrible logic. In response to Klein's awesome question "Is America a racist country?", Cowen proved that it was by citing a poll of white people where they said they would have to be paid to change skin colors. :blink: Oh, and the "alt-right" is stupid for even thinking about potential genetic differences between races because when all other things are held constant, black women born to wealthy families fare better than black men born to wealthy families. But see if racial genetic differences were a meaningful thing, they'd do exactly the same. :blink:
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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Tyler can be interesting, heís an epic infovore and is often good at tying disparate facts into some interesting conclusion. I listen to his podcast and have read his blog on and off for years. Iíve never been a huge fan of Ezra. Even before the Sam Harris smear.


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jon-nyc
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Dave Rubin's latest podcast is an interview with Sam. About 2 hours worth, with Sam doing most of the talking. I'm about an hour in. A wide range of topics.
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George K
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Just so you know, I'm staying out...
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Horace
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Good conversation with Andrew Yang (2020 presidential candidate) in the most recent episode. I have long liked the idea of a Universal Basic Income.

Of course he has a 0% chance of actually becoming president, or the Democrat nominee, and a smaller chance than that of getting a UBI enacted.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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I didn't love it. I'm used to more serious engagements by Sam's interlocutors. He didn't really address the criticisms of UBI very well, sounded more like a budding politician. His talk of 'social currency' frightened me and the idea of remaking society along those lines is actually tyrannical. Sam didn't push back on it specifically, just tried to change the subject when he brought it up. Sam is an advocate for UBI and didn't want to taint it with association with his more far out ideas.


I have mixed thoughts about UBI. I take Peterson's concerns pretty seriously.
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Horace
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Quote:
 
He didn't really address the criticisms of UBI very well


He wrote a book about it. Maybe he addresses more there.

I liked the part where they dismissed the popular notion of finding meaning in menial jobs.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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Even that is somewhat missing the point. Even if you don't find meaning in your actual tasks, people, perhaps especially men, benefit psychologically and socially from having a role in the productive economy as opposed to not having one. Whether you want to use the word 'meaningful' to describe that or not is irrelevant.

This is the heart of Peterson's concerns, by no means unique to him but he presents them well and very sincerely given his experience as a psychologist. (When I say 'sincerely', I mean he's not just against the idea in general and throwing up whatever reasons he can find to see what might stick).
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Horace
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Diminishing room for roles in the productive economy is the issue he's trying to address. It would be soul crushing to devote most of your lifetime to doing something which is meant only to keep you occupied. If it doesn't reasonably contribute to the economy as compared to the same thing being done by a robot, and if everybody knows that, how are you going to expect a human being to buy into the notion that they're better off doing it anyway?

We're not at the point now where we lack low-skill but useful jobs but clearly technology takes us there.

So what will people do when they can't do anything useful to society that can't be done better by a robot? Or is that so far off that it doesn't bear worrying about right now?
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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I've considered that specific point, namely that we might be headed to that situation, UBI or not.


Re the last question, I have paid attention to this and have read/heard a number of points of view about it. I am torn, on the one hand it's always been the case that no one could really envision what jobs will come next. Heck, I could never explain my jobs to my mom, let alone someone in the industrial revolution. On the other hand, the industrial revolution replaced muscle, the AI revolution will replace intelligence too. And eventually empathy. But back to the original hand (to continue the metaphor) one should be wary about 'this time is different' arguments. But on that other hand again, AI *is* different...


Maybe we'll all end up like the ancient greeks living a life of contemplation and leisure on the backs of our AI slaves. Or maybe just some of us will, while the rest survive through wireheading, made that much more palatable via AR/VR.

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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
The most recent one with the negotiation expert was a dud IMO. Lots of hand waving and hackneyed "insights" from the guest. Sam kept trying to wring some deeper stuff out of the guy but I don't think there was much there to get.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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Funny, as I listened to it I noticed the guest could recognize great questions but not answer them. (He kept saying 'great question' and then not answering it satisfactorily.

He has his skill, but isn't really a thoughtful person. I don't mean thoughtful like kind, I mean he's never really given much thought to his professional domain. This is quite common.


I liked the Masha Gessen episode more than I was expecting.


Did you happen to listen to his special 'commercial' for listener sponsorship? I thought it was interesting that the New Yorker approached him recently for a sponsorship request. Nice to hear that either (1) they don't consider him toxic or (b) they'r brave enough to reach out to his audience despite that.

Of course it could just be (1), but only because they haven't really listened to him and the inquiry was from marketing people just looking at podcast demographics and stats. In fact, now that I think of it that's probably what it was.
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Horace
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I was impressed by the New Yorker thing too, but glad that Sam is staying ad free. I don't care about any supposed bias that might creep in, I just hate ads. Especially interminable, repetitive live podcast ad reads. Those are the worst. (Have you heard about Stamps.com? Well, I have. A hundred thousand times.)

Masha Gessen recently pulled out of her scheduled appearance with Sam and some of his ilk. She said it had been "misrepresented". I don't think she liked the whiff of alt-rightyness.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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