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So the UK is going to impose the death sentence...
Topic Started: Apr 22 2018, 07:30 PM (1,857 Views)
John Galt
Fulla-Carp
Update: The Italians are going to bat for Alfie and his family.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43872678
Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness.
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jon-nyc
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:popcorn:
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Wim
Junior Carp
I don't have all the background information needed, but I think Italy should not intervene.
This is becoming a nasty political situation which is not really going to help Alfie.

But then again, I might be wrong...

Wim
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jon-nyc
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It may well be a welcome move to her majesty’s government. It gives them a face-saving way to get out of this mess.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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John Galt
Fulla-Carp
jon-nyc
Apr 23 2018, 10:59 AM
It may well be a welcome move to her majesty’s government. It gives them a face-saving way to get out of this mess.
They are not taking advantage of the opportunity.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-alfie-evans-removed-from-ventilation


eta:
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/high-court-judge-dismisses-latest-14567598


Edited by John Galt, Apr 23 2018, 02:58 PM.
Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness.
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jon-nyc
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After I posted that I realized it really doesn’t. Saving face requires that they treat this like it is purely a medical decision rather than a political or financial one.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
I've seen the update you are about to post, too, George.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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George K
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Finally
https://cruxnow.com/church-in-uk-and-ireland/2018/04/24/alfie-evans-surviving-after-life-support-withdrawn-vatican-hospital-ready-to-receive-him/
Quote:
 
The father of a terminally ill British toddler said the child is surviving after being taken off life support, surprising doctors who had argued he should be allowed to die.
Tom Evans said his 23-month-old son, Alfie, survived for six hours with no assistance, and that doctors are now providing oxygen and hydration.

“He’s now on oxygen,” Evans said. “It’s not changing his breathing but it’s oxygenating his body.”

Alfie is in a “semi-vegetative state” as a result of a degenerative neurological condition doctors have been unable to identify. He was taken off life support after a series of court rulings backed doctors who said further treatment was futile.

Alfie’s parents, Evans, 21, and Kate James, 20, want to take him to the Vatican’s Bambino Gesu Pediatric Hospital. Doctors at Liverpool’s Alder Hey Children’s Hospital believe that would not be in the toddler’s best interests, and British courts have agreed.

The case has drawn the attention of Pope Francis, who during a Sunday blessing in St. Peter’s Square this month offered prayers for Alfie and others who are suffering from serious infirmities. Francis has made appeals for the boy to be kept alive, saying only God can decide who dies.

The head of the Vatican’s Bambino Gesu Pediatric Hospital said the Italian defense ministry had a plane ready to transport Alfie to Italy if he were allowed. In an interview with Italian Radio 24, Mariella Enoc, who travelled to Liverpool to personally try to intervene on behalf of the parents, said she spoke to the Italian ambassador in London who said the plane could leave with him in a matter of minutes.

On Monday, the Italian foreign ministry announced it had granted Alfie Italian citizenship to facilitate his arrival and transport.
Alfie will eventually, die, in my opinion (and by "eventually", I don't mean in his 60s). I can say that even without the knowledge of Bill Frist. The question is a thorny one: who makes the decision of how, when, and where?
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jon-nyc
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It’s not a thorny question, it’s trivial. The patient or whomever has the legal authority to speak for him.

What the state, or the insurance company, is willing to pay for may be thorny. But not the question of who’s call it is.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Isn't Alfie an Italian citizen, as well?
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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George K
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jon-nyc
Apr 24 2018, 01:52 PM
It’s not a thorny question, it’s trivial. The patient or whomever has the legal authority to speak for him.

What the state, or the insurance company, is willing to pay for may be thorny. But not the question of who’s call it is.
Though it's not what I said, it's what I meant.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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George K
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George K
Apr 24 2018, 02:09 PM
jon-nyc
Apr 24 2018, 01:52 PM
It’s not a thorny question, it’s trivial. The patient or whomever has the legal authority to speak for him.

What the state, or the insurance company, is willing to pay for may be thorny. But not the question of who’s call it is.
Though it's not what I said, it's what I meant.
Wait...

By subscribing to NHS (or whatever service you choose) do you lose legal authority to speak for yourself (or another)?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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jon-nyc
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Kinda figured.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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You can walk away from NHS at any time. There’s a thriving private healthcare market after all.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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George K
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jon-nyc
Apr 24 2018, 02:13 PM
You can walk away from NHS at any time. There’s a thriving private healthcare market after all.
At what cost?

From what I understand, that option doesn't exist in Canada, right?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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jon-nyc
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The opt-out method in Canada is to drive south an hour. From what I understand.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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John Galt
Fulla-Carp
Couple of updates.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/24/alfie-evans-parents-lose-legal-appeal-for-vatican-treatment

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43883865
Edited by John Galt, Apr 24 2018, 03:55 PM.
Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Breathing unaided for 20 hours. All of which points to the now, to me anyway, undeniable truth that the drugs they planned to administer would have done nothing but suppress his breathing and hasten his death, which is clearly not imminent.

Some people just need killing, and Alfie isn't one of them.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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George K
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Finally
Another update...

Yeesh....

Quote:
 
Alfie Evans' parents are tonight giving him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation in a desperate bid to keep him alive after a court ruled he cannot be flown to Italy for treatment.

Tom Evans said he and Alfie's mum Kate have been forced to help Alfie's breathing after "his lips turned blue".

Speaking outside Alder Hey hospital in Liverpool, heartbroken Tom added: "We were doing what a nurse should have been doing to sustain his life.

“Now they are saying that he looks really good but we all know he should be in Italy right now.”

A High Court judge earlier made the devastating call to reject a last-ditch attempt to take Alfie abroad — but asked doctors if it is possible to consider letting the 23-month-old tot go home.

Responding tonight, a weary Tom said: "I’ve got an uncle that could just do everything that the nurses do down to a tee and he’s medically trained to do this so I’m just going to keep on fighting for Alfie".
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Purple prose.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
Very sad story. I don't understand why the parents are not allowed to do what they want to do.

I know there are cases that are the opposite, where parents do not want to give medical care (for religion reasons) and are told they have to. But in this case, why would they not allow the parents to get additional medical care? What if the parents said that they would pay?

It is very difficult question. With advances in medical, there will be more cases where a person can be kept alive.
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George K
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Finally
Appeal denied:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/04/24/judge-rules-against-letting-alfie-evans-a-terminally-ill-british-child-go-to-the-popes-hospital/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8680043c53fe
Quote:
 
Pope Francis has been praying for the British toddler Alfie Evans — and the Italian government has granted the child Italian citizenship and lined up a transportation plan that could swiftly bring the sick little boy to a Vatican hospital.

But Alfie’s doctors say he cannot be healed and shouldn’t make the trip at all.

On Tuesday, a British judge sided with the doctors, saying that the family cannot accept the offer to take Alfie to the Vatican for treatment. An appeals court swiftly re-heard the case and upheld the previous day’s ruling, saying on Wednesday that Alfie cannot leave the country.
Putting aside all the medical considerations, if the child has British citizenship, why is he not permitted to leave the country, particularly when someone else (Italy) is bearing the cost?
Edited by George K, Apr 25 2018, 02:10 PM.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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jon-nyc
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That’s the entire crux of this, in my view.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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George K
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jon-nyc
Apr 25 2018, 02:34 PM
That’s the entire crux of this, in my view.

Yup. Freedom of travel, when you boil it down. The government says you can't leave?

"Remember the Berlin Wall wasn't built to keep people out, it was built to keep people in."
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
This is a turf war on the part of the British government, which makes it all the more shameful.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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