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Trump's Attorney's Office Raided by FBI
Topic Started: Apr 9 2018, 01:36 PM (2,200 Views)
jon-nyc
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Cheers
Quote:
 
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
Best tweet of the day:

MAGA! (My attorney got arrested.)
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Apr 10 2018, 05:41 AM
Jolly
Apr 10 2018, 05:18 AM
Remind me to buy another case of ammo...
Maybe you should wait until the evidence is in before you decide to rush the barricades for the guy. That way you can pretend it’s based on principle rather than just tribalism.
Jon, you are so out of touch with much of the country, you might as well be on the moon. And it's not tribalism. That's your new buzz word, I guess.

Americans, or at least those I am familiar with, believe in an essential sense of fairness. Many of the people I know, who did not vote for or support Trump, see much of this as a witch hunt and basically unfair.

And those that did support Trump, see this as a basic negation of their voting rights. People tend to get angry when you start to take their vote away.

But whistle on, my friend. I guess I'm just over-reacting, being tribal, etc. Americans would never come to such logger-heads that some would attempt to dissolve the Union or actually shoot at each other....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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Honestly, Jolly, the list of things you’re willing to go to civil war for is too long for me to take into account when considering my whistling habits.

In the mean time no one is canceling your vote. Trump will be fine unless he committed crimes so egregious that the GOP turns against him.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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kluurs
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Fulla-Carp
Jon, George - what the hell are you two people doing up at 3:48 AM?
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jon-nyc
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It was 6:48. Your time zone must be off.
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jon-nyc
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Jonah Goldberg this morning:

And spare me the “Deep State” or “Rogue Prosecutor” talk. Berman is a Rudy Giuliani guy and was appointed by the Trump administration. To listen to Mike Huckabee, you’d think Mueller kicked down Cohen’s door like Mel Gibson in a Lethal Weapon movie. I’ve talked to several lawyers with DOJ experience. There are serious and strict guidelines against doing anything like this at the DOJ and FBI, particularly when the subject/target has been cooperating. They — and a judge — must have seen something significant to go ahead with this.
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Copper
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Shortstop

I want to know whether the Cohen/Porn Star thing will rate a whole chapter in the memoirs or just a few paragraphs, or maybe just a passing mention.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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jon-nyc
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Quirt points out next door that this survives a Mueller firing.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Apr 10 2018, 06:25 AM
Honestly, Jolly, the list of things you’re willing to go to civil war for is too long for me to take into account when considering my whistling habits.

In the mean time no one is canceling your vote. Trump will be fine unless he committed crimes so egregious that the GOP turns against him.

I have very few things I am willing to kill your kith and kin over.

My freedom tops the list. My family's safety is number two and I don't know that I have a number three.

I don't live in an echo chamber nor do I not understand I am a product of my region and I normally speak with like-minded people. What I do understand, and you apparently fail to grasp, is that the current non-stop war against a duly elected President, often for no reason whatsoever, is very bad for the country and its continued existence.

This is not a tribal problem.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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Again, shouldn’t you wait until you see the evidence before you decide that?

Based on this thread, you seem to be willing to go to war for the ‘freedom’ to live in a world where Michael Cohen can’t be investigated by the FBI.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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George K
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Finally
Andrew McCarthy

Quote:
 
Here’s how I see it right now.

The fact that Mueller referred this to the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York rather than fold it into his own investigation suggests that whatever he found may not be central to his probe. If Mueller had reason to believe that he had Cohen dead to rights on the “collusion” stuff, he probably wouldn’t have farmed this out to a different prosecutor.

On the other hand, the fact that U.S. Attorney Geoffrey Berman agreed with Mueller’s interpretation and sought a warrant from a judge and that the judge agreed to grant one suggests that Cohen is in trouble.
And then he says what Jonah Goldberg quoted (in Jon's post).
Quote:
 
Back on the first hand, I think Hugh Hewitt is right that this is a politically unprecedented move to go after the president’s lawyer and, by extension, the president’s private papers. Which means that whatever warranted this had better be big enough and clear enough to the public to justify such a move, or a lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.
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Copper
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Jolly
Apr 10 2018, 07:07 AM

This is not a tribal problem.

This president has been treated like no other president has ever been treated.

The problem is that this will become the new norm.

The impeachment of Oprah will begin even before she takes office.

No real reason is needed, she is just the enemy.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Apr 10 2018, 07:15 AM
Again, shouldn’t you wait until you see the evidence before you decide that?

Based on this thread, you seem to be willing to go to war for the ‘freedom’ to live in a world where Michael Cohen can’t be investigated by the FBI.
Show me the man and I'll show you the crime.

Cohen would not even by under investigation, had not a Special Counsel been appointed for a Russian collusion with the Trump campaign problem that has already been proven to be false. Mueller is the same man who would not admit he was wrong and ruined more than one life during the terrorism cases he investigated. I'm not even sure in the normal course of things Manafort would be prosecuted, given the nature of how business is normally done.

Due process is fine, but Soviet-style witch hunts should be beyond us as a free people.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Copper
Apr 10 2018, 08:05 AM
Jolly
Apr 10 2018, 07:07 AM

This is not a tribal problem.

This president has been treated like no other president has ever been treated.

The problem is that this will become the new norm.

The impeachment of Oprah will begin even before she takes office.

No real reason is needed, she is just the enemy.

Don't know about Oprah, but scorched earth begats scorched earth and eventually leads to blood. There are none so blind as cannot see, or those that will not even consider empire and past history.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Shortstop

It is Oprah's turn, but we have seen that doesn't always work out.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Apr 10 2018, 07:24 AM
Which means that whatever warranted this had better be big enough and clear enough to the public to justify such a move, or a lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.
Will we get to know what exactly "what ever warrented this" is?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Klaus
Apr 10 2018, 08:43 AM
George K
Apr 10 2018, 07:24 AM
Which means that whatever warranted this had better be big enough and clear enough to the public to justify such a move, or a lot of people are going to have egg on their faces.
Will we get to know what exactly "what ever warrented this" is?
I would think so. Too big of a splash not to...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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jon-nyc
Apr 10 2018, 06:34 AM
Jonah Goldberg this morning:

And spare me the “Deep State” or “Rogue Prosecutor” talk. Berman is a Rudy Giuliani guy and was appointed by the Trump administration. To listen to Mike Huckabee, you’d think Mueller kicked down Cohen’s door like Mel Gibson in a Lethal Weapon movie. I’ve talked to several lawyers with DOJ experience. There are serious and strict guidelines against doing anything like this at the DOJ and FBI, particularly when the subject/target has been cooperating. They — and a judge — must have seen something significant to go ahead with this.
But...

Berman recused himself.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-attorney-trump-appointee-recused-michael-cohen-investigation/story?id=54365546
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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George K
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jon-nyc
Apr 10 2018, 09:20 AM
Berman recused himself.
Journalism:
Quote:
 
Berman is a Trump appointee with ties to Rudy Giuliani who donated money to the 2016 Trump campaign.
It's pedantry Tuesday, but who donated money, Berman or Giuliani? :lol2:

"Berman, who donated money to the 2016 Trump campaign, is a Trump appointee with ties to Giuliani" is better, isn't it?

Hey, it's WhatAboutism Tuesday as well!

Did the Mueller investigators who donated money to Clinton recuse themselves as well? Prolly not.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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jon-nyc
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Jolly
Apr 10 2018, 08:08 AM
Cohen would not even by under investigation, had not a Special Counsel been appointed for a Russian collusion with the Trump campaign problem that has already been proven to be false.
Two problems with this.

First, collusion has not been proven to be false. (That’s not even theoretically possible)

Secondly, the WSJ breaking of the story about the payoff and coverup was sufficient to start an investigation into Cohen. In fact, it probably did. Which is why this is only ‘in part’ based on Meuller.
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jon-nyc
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George K
Apr 10 2018, 09:27 AM
Did the Mueller investigators who donated money to Clinton recuse themselves as well? Prolly not.
He didn’t recuse himself because of that, he refused himself because he was up for consideration for appointment to the position. (Says Volokh). At the moment he’s only interim.
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George K
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jon-nyc
Apr 10 2018, 09:30 AM
He didn’t recuse himself because of that, he refused himself because he was up for consideration for appointment to the position. (Says Volokh).
That wasn't apparent from your link.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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jon-nyc
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The funny thing is, the act of recusing himself will take him out of the running in Trump’s eyes, if his tweets about Sessions are any guide.
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jon-nyc
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Oh, but his second in command who did approve it was another Trump appointee, Robert Khuzami.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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George K
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Davis
Apr 10 2018, 03:57 AM
I’ll know it’s game when Alan Dershowitz throws in the towel.
http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/382459-dershowitz-targeting-trumps-lawyer-should-worry-us-all
Quote:
 
There is much speculation as to the significance of the search of the offices and hotel room of President Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen. To obtain a search warrant, prosecutors must demonstrate to a judge that they have probable cause to believe that the premises to be searched contain evidence of crime. They must also specify the area to be searched, the items to be seized and, in searches of computers, the word searches to be used.

At least that’s the constitutional requirement in theory, especially where the Sixth Amendment right to counsel is involved, in addition to the general Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches. Yet, in practice, judges often give the FBI considerable latitude, relying on the “firewalls” and “taint teams” they set up to protect the subject of the search from violation of his or her constitutional rights.

But the firewalls and taint teams are comprised of government agents who themselves may not be entitled to read or review many of the items seized. It is an imperfect protection of important constitutional rights. That’s why Justice Department officials must be careful to limit the searching of lawyers’ offices to compelling cases involving serious crimes. We don’t know at this point what the prosecutors are looking for but, if it relates to payments made to porn star Stormy Daniels, that would not seem to justify so potentially intrusive a search of Cohen’s confidential lawyer-client files.

There are, of course, exceptions to the lawyer-client privilege. First, the lawyer must be acting as a lawyer, not as a friend or business associate. But the scope of a lawyer’s work is quite broad, encompassing much more than merely giving legal advice. It includes settling cases by making payments to potential litigants. Second, the lawyer must be engaged in lawful activities on behalf of the clients. Illegal or fraudulent activities are not covered by the privilege. Nor are communications with third persons, such as the lawyer for the other side, though such communications may be covered by the much weaker “settlement privilege.”

Civil libertarians should be concerned whenever the government interferes with the lawyer-client relationship. Clients should be able to rely on confidentiality when they disclose their most intimate secrets in an effort to secure their legal rights. A highly publicized raid on the president’s lawyer will surely shake the confidence of many clients in promises of confidentiality by their lawyers. They will not necessarily understand the nuances of the confidentiality rules and their exceptions. They will see a lawyer’s office being raided and all his files seized.

I believe we would have been hearing more from civil libertarians — the American Civil Liberties Union, attorney groups and privacy advocates — if the raid had been on Hillary Clinton’s lawyer. Many civil libertarians have remained silent about potential violations of President Trump’s rights because they strongly disapprove of him and his policies. That is a serious mistake, because these violations establish precedents that lie around like loaded guns capable of being aimed at other targets.

I have been widely attacked for defending the constitutional rights of a president I voted against. In our hyperpartisan age, everyone is expected to choose a side, either for or against Trump. But the essence of civil liberties is that they must be equally applicable to all. The silence among most civil libertarians regarding the recent raid shows that we are losing that valuable neutrality.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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