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| Predictable? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 14 2018, 09:26 AM (421 Views) | |
| xenon | Mar 14 2018, 09:26 AM Post #1 |
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Senior Carp
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Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/14/teacher-accidentally-discharges-firearm-in-calif-classroom-he-was-trained-in-gun-use/?utm_term=.77892d071841 |
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| xenon | Mar 14 2018, 09:27 AM Post #2 |
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Senior Carp
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No worries though. We should just arm a small percentage of students - well trained students - adept in firearms. Adept. That’ll keep reckless teachers in line. Edited by xenon, Mar 14 2018, 09:28 AM.
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| Copper | Mar 14 2018, 09:35 AM Post #3 |
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Shortstop
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Only arm the teachers where there will be a shooter. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| xenon | Mar 14 2018, 09:38 AM Post #4 |
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Senior Carp
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It’s called concealed carry folks - not sure if you’ve heard that term before. |
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| MainerMikeBrown | Mar 14 2018, 10:04 AM Post #5 |
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Senior Carp
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Even gun trained teachers will make mistakes with guns. |
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| Jolly | Mar 14 2018, 10:47 AM Post #6 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I dunno. Do you carry? Do you know anybody who does? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| xenon | Mar 14 2018, 11:01 AM Post #7 |
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Senior Carp
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I do not. Last time I shot a gun, I was really young. (Uncle in India thought it’d be cute/hilarious) I was just poking some fun with the language here: Trump on guns Edited by xenon, Mar 14 2018, 11:01 AM.
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| taiwan_girl | Mar 14 2018, 12:19 PM Post #8 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I just do not see this working (and am against it). The recent school shooting was at a school that had more than a 1000 students. I am sure that the inside of the school was chaos - kids running, teachers running, etc. I think that more damage would be caused by teachers with guns than without. Many of these killings happen so so quickly. Also, Many (most?) of these shooters do not have any intention of coming out of the school alive. Most of them commit suicide. I do not think that if they knew there was a possibility of a teacher with a gun, that would stop them at all. |
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| Copper | Mar 14 2018, 12:37 PM Post #9 |
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Shortstop
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That is one reason why it is difficult to have a dispassionate discussion about this. One person's guess is as good the next. I think armed teachers would reduce the total number of victims even if there were a few accidents. The problem with that is that just one accident might be worth more than 1,000 victims of the shooter. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Rainman | Mar 14 2018, 12:37 PM Post #10 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I agree TG. I believe the federal government could spend money nationwide as part of Title funding to increase psychologists and true counselors in public schools. There is something boiling in the world of young people, at least it appears that there are problems perhaps new or unique. Difficult to find meaningful solutions when any conversation or even research moves to taboo subjects, quickly. Easier to blame guns. |
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| jon-nyc | Mar 14 2018, 12:41 PM Post #11 |
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Cheers
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We just need to hire teachers that’ll run in without a gun. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| MainerMikeBrown | Mar 14 2018, 12:48 PM Post #12 |
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Senior Carp
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It's so sad that some teachers may have to be trained how to use guns because the main point of being a teacher is supposed to be to teach.
Edited by MainerMikeBrown, Mar 14 2018, 12:49 PM.
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| Jolly | Mar 14 2018, 01:15 PM Post #13 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Well, you know me and I've got some hardware on me at the moment. As do a lot of folks down here. Nothing unusual about it. I don't carry a duty sized weapon...All I want is a get-off-of-me gun. You don't carry a gun looking for a fight...In fact, you avoid one at all costs. But back to arming teachers...What stops a man with a gun? It damn sure ain't going Bruce Lee on somebody, it's another guy with a gun. The second thing to consider is response times. In the case of a school shooting, time = lives. So, the best solution is a an armed SRO. (Unless you live in Florida and the SRO will not enter the building). The second best solution is a building that is as hardened against a shooter as possible. The last layer of defense will be an armed teacher. How do we arm teachers? First, you have to pick the right ones. Secondly, you have to train them. Third, you have to have weapons security. The first two are obvious, the third point is open to debate. For concealed carry, the teacher has immediate access to his weapon. In the case of a biolocked safe, the safe has the advantage of weapon security. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Mar 14 2018, 01:16 PM Post #14 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Not funny. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Mar 14 2018, 01:25 PM Post #15 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I've never been in the middle of a school shooting. I have been in the middle of a hospital with an immediate entry of a guy wielding an AR-15...And he killed two people before he got there. I ain't guessing when I talk about this stuff. If the kids do what they are trained to do - and they will - security can be coached and defensive lines of fire can be considered. No teacher is going to charge into a hallway shooting indiscriminately. They are going to take a defensive posture, protect as many students as they can and pray for immediate police response. I can't promise perfection. No gun is entirely safe at all times if it is handled by an unsafe human. But as in most of life, this is a cost/benefit question. Is the risk worth the reward? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Copper | Mar 14 2018, 01:28 PM Post #16 |
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Shortstop
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Exactly, just a few simple questions. How many casualties will be caused by the armed teachers? How many casualties will be prevented by the armed teachers? What is the relative value of a caused casualty vs a prevented casualty? |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| taiwan_girl | Mar 14 2018, 03:29 PM Post #17 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Both good questions. And as Copper says earlier, it is all guesses. So nobody really knows. I say to give guns to all teachers. Copper says to not allow it. Who is right? Copper says to give guns to all teachers. I says not to allow it. Who is right? Both? Neither? But, I am glad that people are talking about it. I like Rainmans thoughts on this too. MaineMikeBrown also has a good point. To me, schools should feel like schools, not a place that is more like a jail. I once was part of a panel discussion (careers, etc) at a inner city Chicago school. Metal detector to get through the door. All purses, bags, etc. checked. Maybe needed to have the "wand" if required. Armed guard (maybe more than one) inside the school. I understand the reasons for this, but it made me feel more sad than anything.
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| Larry | Mar 14 2018, 07:30 PM Post #18 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Why even talk about guns? Guns aren't the problem. Let's deal with the problem. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Jolly | Mar 14 2018, 09:35 PM Post #19 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Nobody wants to deal with the problem. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Klaus | Mar 15 2018, 12:02 AM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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OK, I'll bite. What is the problem? |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Jolly | Mar 15 2018, 06:14 AM Post #21 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Societal change. I've listed many of what I think the current problems are, but we are not doing as good a job of raising children, particularly boys, as we used to do. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| jon-nyc | Mar 15 2018, 08:28 AM Post #22 |
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Cheers
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Seen on Twitter: “Who had “pretty much right away because obviously” in the pool?” |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| taiwan_girl | Mar 15 2018, 01:53 PM Post #23 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I think this is one of those discussions, that because there is no way to prove right or wrong, will never be answered. But, anyways ...................... ![]() I think that Jolly is correct - society change is a problem. But I think people have different definitions of what needs to change in society. Some people (and I must say me included) think that US society needs to change it's philosophy on guns. Japan seems to function very well with allowing people to have guns, but has very very strong restrictions on guns. Let take a case that will never never happen in a million million years, but let me say it anyway. For example, if the US were suddenly able to remove all guns from society (and I mean all guns - not "if you take our guns, only bad people will have guns", but ALL guns), I think we would all agree that the US society would be a safer place. If people would think it would be unsafer, I would be interested in hearing how this would be the case. And again, in my fantasy world, there are NO guns. I understand that people hunt, and I have no problem with that. But, the people who hunt who i have talked with generally do not instantaneously jump out of bed, get their gun, and go out the door hunting. Does this happen - probably, but I would believe that it is pretty rare. So, if this is the case, what is wrong with having certain licensing, background checks, waiting period on owning a gun. Most gun owners are quite responsible and I do not think this would be a problem with them. Again, most people do not decide that they all of a sudden need XX gun to go hunting, and must have it in the next XX hours. Jolly gave me a suggestion a while ago to look at the "Federalist Papers", as that may help my understanding . I have looked through them (not in great detail as there are 85! papers), but did try and do a search on guns and arms. I could not find anything that said that there could be no restrictions on owning a gun. To me, the Constitution says there is the right to bear arms, but it does not say (and I could not find anything that said) it has to be with no restriction. |
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| Copper | Mar 15 2018, 03:49 PM Post #24 |
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Shortstop
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We would not all agree. Not even close. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Jolly | Mar 15 2018, 03:49 PM Post #25 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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And there have been restrictions. Most of them since 1920. And things really tightened up after 1963. Before then, a six year-old kid could have lied on a mail order form, sent in his birthday money and received a nice, surplus M1 carbine... America's original assault weapon (actually, that would be a M2, but I doubt most of you would even know the difference. A M2 has a giggle switch.). But you didn't have mass school shootings. The guns really haven't changed. That only leaves society. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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4:22 PM Jul 10