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Test? I don't need no steenkin' test!
Topic Started: Mar 12 2018, 04:57 AM (492 Views)
Davis
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Senior Carp
jon-nyc
Mar 12 2018, 12:03 PM
I was obviously exaggerating for effect, and possibly humor.


But I'm quite serious, for decades he has seemed like such a caricature of a self-promoting con man, I never understood why people took him seriously. And I mean bankers, vendors, spouses, etc. Not just the public.
The POWER of positive thinking. Norman Vincent Peale. It works you non-believer. :lol2:
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Mar 12 2018, 12:03 PM
I was obviously exaggerating for effect, and possibly humor.


But I'm quite serious, for decades he has seemed like such a caricature of a self-promoting con man, I never understood why people took him seriously. And I mean bankers, vendors, spouses, etc. Not just the public.
Don't let TDS get in the way of critical analysis.

He's managed to be successful. Maybe it's by selling moonbeams. Or convincing other people to invest. Or maybe he has great connections. Maybe he's had some good business ideas. Maybe it's because he hired the right people.

I don't know.

Regardless, the fact remains he has made money, and apparently better than the average bear has done. Much better. So, ipso de facto, he cannot be bad at business.

To deny that fact is ludicrous.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
I donít deny it, I just find it mysterious. Really, genuinely mysterious.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
Money isn't everything.
(everyone write that down).

Does he play piano, does he read great literature i.e., does he comprehend the Arts and Humanities other than perhaps throwing money in that direction once in a while?

Beats me.


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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Mar 12 2018, 12:40 PM
I donít deny it, I just find it mysterious. Really, genuinely mysterious.
I don't think you did. I was referring back to another gentleman.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Davis
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jon-nyc
Mar 12 2018, 12:40 PM
I donít deny it, I just find it mysterious. Really, genuinely mysterious.
Populism is not confined to the US. Maybe that helps. Also many super wealthy folks are not Wall Street types. A longing for US exceptionalism vs apologism. A desire to slow down cultural change in this country. The lack of appeal of Hillary. I could go on with guesses.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Watching you Trump haters attempt to portray him as an unsuccessful clod and expressing your surprise at how he managed to do "mysteriously" make money and friends has me laughing my ass off. Mostly because it says more about you than it does Trump.

Aqua lists off a short list of businesses he was connected to that failed, as if that means something. Doing that shows such a profound lack of knowledge about how business works, how you make money, that I don't even know where to begin. It's sad, really. Jon thinks it's "mysterious" how he gets people to "take him serious".

Jon.... up until a year and a half ago your tribe thought he was one of you. Which brings us to the topic of the ideological bankruptcy of liberalism.

I wonder sometimes how some of you even manage to tie your own shoelaces.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
I feel that I should point out that I don't manage to tie my own shoelaces.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
I wear Birks. No laces.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Ok, so instead of shoelaces I'll change it to wondering how some of you manage to find your ass to wipe it....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
I don't wipe my ass either. I literally believe in a nanny state which provides that service to me.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
The problem with that is the state assumes all asses are the same so they wipe them all the same way. Then of course there's the issue of having to pay 500 bucks for a roll of toilet paper, only to stand there with a dirty ass until someone from the state shows up to smear it down your leg......
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Thatís the part I like best.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's toilet paper.
-- Margaret Thatcher.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Klaus
Mar 12 2018, 02:28 PM
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's toilet paper.
-- Margaret Thatcher.
Yes, but you never run out of other peopleís asses.


So thereís that.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
Jolly
Mar 12 2018, 09:59 AM
Aqua Letifer
Mar 12 2018, 09:25 AM
Jolly
Mar 12 2018, 09:18 AM
Your argument borders on the delusional.
All you've presented to support your claim that Trump is a great businessman is some empty plea to common sense. Please, let's talk about how awesome he is at budgeting.
Ok, so he doesn't know anything about business.

Then explain how he turned a $1M loan from his father into 3.5 billion dollars.
I was reading some story on the returns from the US stock market. If President Trump would have invested the money his father gave him (the story I read said that it was somewhere between $10 -$20 million) in the US stock market, he would actually have better returns that way than from his business.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
taiwan_girl
Mar 13 2018, 12:43 PM
Jolly
Mar 12 2018, 09:59 AM
Aqua Letifer
Mar 12 2018, 09:25 AM
Jolly
Mar 12 2018, 09:18 AM
Your argument borders on the delusional.
All you've presented to support your claim that Trump is a great businessman is some empty plea to common sense. Please, let's talk about how awesome he is at budgeting.
Ok, so he doesn't know anything about business.

Then explain how he turned a $1M loan from his father into 3.5 billion dollars.
I was reading some story on the returns from the US stock market. If President Trump would have invested the money his father gave him (the story I read said that it was somewhere between $10 -$20 million) in the US stock market, he would actually have better returns that way than from his business.
That may be true.

But how many young people lose their financial tail in business, even if they have money to begin with?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
Jolly
Mar 13 2018, 12:46 PM
taiwan_girl
Mar 13 2018, 12:43 PM
Jolly
Mar 12 2018, 09:59 AM
Aqua Letifer
Mar 12 2018, 09:25 AM
Jolly
Mar 12 2018, 09:18 AM
Your argument borders on the delusional.
All you've presented to support your claim that Trump is a great businessman is some empty plea to common sense. Please, let's talk about how awesome he is at budgeting.
Ok, so he doesn't know anything about business.

Then explain how he turned a $1M loan from his father into 3.5 billion dollars.
I was reading some story on the returns from the US stock market. If President Trump would have invested the money his father gave him (the story I read said that it was somewhere between $10 -$20 million) in the US stock market, he would actually have better returns that way than from his business.
That may be true.

But how many young people lose their financial tail in business, even if they have money to begin with?
I think President Trump has done that more than once! 555555

Has not he filed for bankruptcy a number of times? :P
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
taiwan_girl
Mar 13 2018, 12:56 PM
Jolly
Mar 13 2018, 12:46 PM
taiwan_girl
Mar 13 2018, 12:43 PM
Jolly
Mar 12 2018, 09:59 AM
Aqua Letifer
Mar 12 2018, 09:25 AM
Jolly
Mar 12 2018, 09:18 AM
Your argument borders on the delusional.
All you've presented to support your claim that Trump is a great businessman is some empty plea to common sense. Please, let's talk about how awesome he is at budgeting.
Ok, so he doesn't know anything about business.

Then explain how he turned a $1M loan from his father into 3.5 billion dollars.
I was reading some story on the returns from the US stock market. If President Trump would have invested the money his father gave him (the story I read said that it was somewhere between $10 -$20 million) in the US stock market, he would actually have better returns that way than from his business.
That may be true.

But how many young people lose their financial tail in business, even if they have money to begin with?
I think President Trump has done that more than once! 555555

Has not he filed for bankruptcy a number of times? :P
Some of his companies have. Trump has never personally filed for bankruptcy, not that I can recall.

OPM.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Jolly
Mar 13 2018, 12:58 PM
Some of his companies have. Trump has never personally filed for bankruptcy, not that I can recall.
That's like saying, "I have a lot of black friends and everything, butó"
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Good God...

First, Trump got started on his own by borrowing one million dollars from his father. That loan was paid back by the way. AFTER Trump had been on his own, as he needed to borrow money, instead of borrowing it from a bank he borrowed it from his father so his father would collect the interest. All of THOSE loans were paid back, and all of these loans put together amounted to around 7.5 million.

Here is a little information you Trump bashers might not know: MOST business borrow money. Even big, huge corporations with hundreds of billions in assets borrow money. When you attack Trump because he borrowed money, you may think you're getting a jab in at the man, but what you're really doing is showing how little you know about how business works.

Secondly: There is no way in HELL you could have put even ten million dollars in the stock market 40 years ago and it be worth 3.5 billion dollars today. Ain't gonna happen.

Third, and the most common ignorant smear of Trump one can imagine, is the "well, he went bankrupt 4 times, you know" stupidity. People who repeat this smear ought to go ahead and hang a sign around their neck that says "Kick me, I don't know sh!t about how business works"...

First, it exposes your view of what is entailed in starting and running a business. You apparently think that Trump started a business, went in to the office every day at that business, and personally ran the day to day operations of the business, and failed at it. You're seeing all businesses as mom and pop operations. Are you aware that there are McDonalds restaurants that go bankrupt all over the world, for example? Do you think they are all ran by the same man?....bahahahaha

If you have any sense, the first thing you do before you put more than one dollar into starting a new business is to incorporate that business so that you limit your liability in the event of failure, or you get sued, or any number of things that can happen that are beyond your control. Now if you're going to operate a mom and pop business, you personally go to work at the business every day. But you have limited just how big that business can grow. Nothing wrong with that, but on the off chance that your business becomes wildly successful, if you want it to grow beyond what you can personally handle, you will need to change how you do things and let go of your grip on the business' daily operations and bring in people to do that for you.

Second is "branding". Do you think the Steinway Company is a failure? Have you seen any Steinway stereo systems for sale lately? No? Want to know why? Steinway didn't actually start a company building stereo systems, they simply licensed their brand name to a company that did. When that company went bankrupt, did that mean Steinway had failed? No. It meant that they would either have to find someone else to license the brand name to, or move on to something else. Trump licenses his brand name sometimes.

Here's how it works - let's say you own a chain of gas stations. Let's say you have 7 locations. You're doing quite well, and your gas station chain is generating sufficient cash flow to allow you to expand your market. One of your competitors decides to sell off several of their locations, each of those locations in areas where you do not already have a storefront. Do you A: drain your existing business of operating cash to purchase these locations in hopes that business continues to remain steady enough for you to bring your cash flow back up, or B. do you borrow money to pay for the new locations and then expect those new locations to generate the funds necessary to repay the loan? The answer is B. Next - do you A. buy those locations in your own personal name, and borrow the money in your own personal name, meaning that if those locations cannot generate the funds necessary to pay off the loan you and your existing businesses will be at risk, or B. do you incorporate these new locations individually so that the most you stand to lose at one time is one location? The answer again, is B.

There's an old saying.. "the only people who have never failed at anything are people who have never DONE anything". On the way to a net worth of 3.5 billion, you are going to have a few things that don't work. It doesn't mean you are a failure at business, it simply means you are DOING something.

Good Grief.....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
Larry, you make some good points, but I just don't agree that President Trump is this great business man.

I have worked with some developing countries. A village person who starts with $100 US and has a business, and after 10 years, they have $1000. They have gotten ~ 25% every year return.

Someone who starts with $1MM US (or $10 MM), and then inherits another $50MM (or $100 MM) and over 40 years has $3B or whatever. Average return is 10% or so.

Are they both great business man?

It is easy to make money when you start with money. It does not take a genius. Of course, many people start with money and lose it all, so I give credit to President Trump for growing his money. Is he good with money? Yes! Is he better than the average person on this forum? Maybe not.

Regarding bankruptcy, I don't like it. I always try and avoid getting too much debt, and if I have debt, I feel responsible to pay it back. If I had my own business, I would feel the same way. Is it naive? Maybe, but going bankrupt is legal and I understand why it is done (on both a personal and business side).
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
No one purposely starts a business with the intent of it failing. But businesses quite often do fail, and it is just smart business to limit the liability to that one single business.

As for the math you're using to arrive at the conclusion that 3.5 billion is just a 10% or so return on an initial 10 million... I must have missed that class.

And anyone - ANYONE - who amasses a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars, no matter how much they started out with, is a good businessman.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Just for the record, how many of us have owned a small business that had two or more locations?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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George K
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Finally
Jolly
Mar 13 2018, 03:25 PM
Just for the record, how many of us have owned a small business that had two or more locations?
:wave2:

Our group had, in the late 1990s, three locations. Granted we didn't own them, but we had exclusive contracts.

When one became unprofitable, we dumped them.
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- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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