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Trump and Steel
Topic Started: Mar 1 2018, 10:26 PM (2,706 Views)
Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/03/01/trump-says-hell-impose-a-25-per-cent-steel-tariff-which-could-decimate-canadas-industry-if-it-applies.html

The steel industry employs A LOT of people in Hamilton, including my roommate and quite a few friends.
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xenon
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Senior Carp
Itíll affect jobs in the US as well. Steel and aluminum are basic raw inputs into much of the manufacturing base - makes ďMade in AmericaĒ more expensive.

Thatís before we even get into the whole protectionism vs free trade side of things.
Edited by xenon, Mar 1 2018, 11:46 PM.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Market agrees this is stupidity. Zero chance that China doesnít retaliate in painful ways.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
I see both sides of this.

Some countries are definitely dumping steel in the U.S. This artificially puts domestic steel producers out of business and that is a strategic problem for the country. No steel production is bad for the country.

OTOH, cheap steel means cheaper consumer goods and building materials. That means consumer and business dollars go further.

The question comes down to what is best for the country.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Another thought...Would the media reaction be the same if a similar tariff policy had been proposed during the Obama Administration?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Mar 2 2018, 04:59 AM
Another thought...Would the media reaction be the same if a similar tariff policy had been proposed during the Obama Administration?
Outside the US, yes probably.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
In the long perspective I would rather have more expensive steel and a steel industry that could take us through a war.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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xenon
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Senior Carp
Now you all know Iím not a fan of Trump. I think heís not intelligent and thoughtful in the way you need someone in his position to be. He tweeted this this morning:

Quote:
 
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, donít trade anymore-we win big. Itís easy!


Do these sound like the words of someone who understands what heís talking about? Or is he just doing some political theater?
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Copper
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Shortstop

It is nice to have a president that likes the United States.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
xenon
Mar 2 2018, 07:15 AM
Now you all know Iím not a fan of Trump. I think heís not intelligent and thoughtful in the way you need someone in his position to be. He tweeted this this morning:

Quote:
 
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, donít trade anymore-we win big. Itís easy!


Do these sound like the words of someone who understands what heís talking about? Or is he just doing some political theater?
The charitable read would be that he has a different definition of Ďwinningí than you or I. Or most economists, for that matter.


His base would follow him into autarky, I suspect. But the markets wouldnít, and that may knock sense into him at some point.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Copper
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Shortstop

The markets haven't had much trouble following him for the last year and a half.

I hope it will be a while before we get to the point where sense needs to be knocked in.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Mar 2 2018, 10:14 AM
xenon
Mar 2 2018, 07:15 AM
Now you all know Iím not a fan of Trump. I think heís not intelligent and thoughtful in the way you need someone in his position to be. He tweeted this this morning:

Quote:
 
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, donít trade anymore-we win big. Itís easy!


Do these sound like the words of someone who understands what heís talking about? Or is he just doing some political theater?
The charitable read would be that he has a different definition of Ďwinningí than you or I. Or most economists, for that matter.


His base would follow him into autarky, I suspect. But the markets wouldnít, and that may knock sense into him at some point.
He's playing chess, you're playing checkers.

What does any negotiator do, when they start to strike a deal?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Iím actually not playing at all.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Mar 2 2018, 10:35 AM
Iím actually not playing at all.

if you're in the market, you're playing.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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xenon
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Senior Carp
Jolly
Mar 2 2018, 10:32 AM
jon-nyc
Mar 2 2018, 10:14 AM
xenon
Mar 2 2018, 07:15 AM
Now you all know Iím not a fan of Trump. I think heís not intelligent and thoughtful in the way you need someone in his position to be. He tweeted this this morning:

Quote:
 
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, donít trade anymore-we win big. Itís easy!


Do these sound like the words of someone who understands what heís talking about? Or is he just doing some political theater?
The charitable read would be that he has a different definition of Ďwinningí than you or I. Or most economists, for that matter.


His base would follow him into autarky, I suspect. But the markets wouldnít, and that may knock sense into him at some point.
He's playing chess, you're playing checkers.

What does any negotiator do, when they start to strike a deal?
Iíve heard the 4D chess stuff a lot. Donít buy it for a minute. Heís been saying this stuff since he 80s in the same form. Swap out Japan for China now.
Edited by xenon, Mar 2 2018, 10:42 AM.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
I think the reason that argument is so popular is it isn't falsifiable and there's no limit to the stupidity it can excuse. And it may even occasionally turn out to be true.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Who is he trying to have a trade war with? China? The deficit is a hell of a lot more than 100 Billion, and they represent under 2% of our steel imports. Canada? Mexico? Brazil? Those are the companies that send us over 50% of our steel imports combined. That's who this will affect.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Luke's Dad
Mar 2 2018, 11:06 AM
Who is he trying to have a trade war with? China? The deficit is a hell of a lot more than 100 Billion, and they represent under 2% of our steel imports. Canada? Mexico? Brazil? Those are the companies that send us over 50% of our steel imports combined. That's who this will affect.
China, about 4% IIRC.

The thing that concerns me most, is the ability to make steel. Great Britain was once one of the finest producers of steel in the world. Now, if they had to build a ship, they probably couldn't do it with indigenous steel. For a nation which depends upon shipping for many things, that says a lot...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Quote:
 
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, donít trade anymore-we win big. Itís easy!

Yeah, we have all this power over China.

Until they show up a little late to our next Treasury auction...
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Europe's steel is not made in an unfair way or subsidised. If there will be import taxes just because American steel companies are not competitive, then that's not good for anyone, especially not the US.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
What you lefties need to do is accept the fact that your ideas have failed, your ideology has failed, and you're so entrenched into it that you aren't able to see the bigger picture. Then get out of the way and watch and learn.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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xenon
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Senior Carp
Larry
Mar 2 2018, 12:12 PM
What you lefties need to do is accept the fact that your ideas have failed, your ideology has failed, and you're so entrenched into it that you aren't able to see the bigger picture. Then get out of the way and watch and learn.
Oh yeah - free trade, what a leftist ruse.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
See, you don't even understand how free trade works. Thanks for proving my point.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Iím going to rest my case about how his base would follow him into autarky.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Well God knows it will be better than continuing to follow the democrats.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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