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Colleges take on Opiod epidemic
Topic Started: Jan 9 2018, 07:46 AM (262 Views)
Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I honestly did not know the numbers were this large. A sobering new perspective.

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More than 4,300 Ohioans died of drug overdoses in 2016.

That’s nearly the size of this year’s freshman class at Ohio University.

That’s more than the number of graduates who received diplomas at Ohio State University’s fall commencement last month.


http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180107/colleges-pursue-ways-to-take-on-opioid-epidemic
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there's a gun around, I want to be controlling it." Clint Eastwood, Pink Cadillac
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Davis
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Fulla-Carp
This article puts it at the feet of fentanyl.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/08/30/ohio-drug-overdose-deaths-more-than-double-thanks-fentanyl/618778001/

The question is what is the growth of prescription opiates that would lead to the conversion to heroin as cheaper and then laced with deadly fentanyl which led to skyrocketing deaths.


And through the power of the google, we see 3x 1999 rates but significant declines in opiate prescriptions since 2015:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6626a4.htm
Edited by Davis, Jan 9 2018, 05:09 PM.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Darwinism at work. It's kinda like a meth epidemic...After enough of them burn up and burn out, it'll quiet down and people will turn to another drug. Then, people will forget how bad it was, or maybe be too young to know and get back in it....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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xenon
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Senior Carp
Fentanyl is scary stuff. A envelope full of the stuff has enough potency for literally thousands of overdoses. (A bit of a game changer, other powdered drugs still need to be transported in bulky bricks)

It can be a sad progression from legitimate pain killers to illegal drugs. Seems like over-prescription of pain killers is part of the problem here - but I don't know how to effectively tackle this thing.
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
What percentage do you think these deaths would be reduced by legalization?

I’d bet well over 90%.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Riley
Jan 10 2018, 05:04 PM
What percentage do you think these deaths would be reduced by legalization?

I’d bet well over 90%.
How wonderful do you think a society would be with opiates on demand.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Riley
Jan 10 2018, 05:04 PM
What percentage do you think these deaths would be reduced by legalization?

I’d bet well over 90%.

Because legal opiods help you make smarter decisions?
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jan 10 2018, 06:05 PM
Riley
Jan 10 2018, 05:04 PM
What percentage do you think these deaths would be reduced by legalization?

I’d bet well over 90%.
How wonderful do you think a society would be with opiates on demand.
About the same as it is now, just with less people dying.
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Jan 10 2018, 06:28 PM
Riley
Jan 10 2018, 05:04 PM
What percentage do you think these deaths would be reduced by legalization?

I’d bet well over 90%.

Because legal opiods help you make smarter decisions?
Because (generally) people don’t die from the legal opiates, whether they obtained them legally or not, they die from the illegal ones.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
I don’t really follow your logic, Riley. Prohibition generally does depress demand, as intended. The problem is the unintended consequences with the black market and organized criminals who serve it. Generally speaking, the case for legalization involves accepting increased use for a more or less complete elimination of the organized criminal market and its attendant ills.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Jan 11 2018, 12:49 AM
I don’t really follow your logic, Riley. Prohibition generally does depress demand, as intended. The problem is the unintended consequences with the black market and organized criminals who serve it. Generally speaking, the case for legalization involves accepting increased use for a more or less complete elimination of the organized criminal market and its attendant ills.

Bolded part is why people are dying.

Opiate use would go up if they were legalized, I’m not arguing that. But probably not by much. Overdoses would go down by easily 90%.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
There's already some evidence coming out, that legalized marijuana ain't all it was potrayed to be, so I can only imagine what legal opiods would do.

But I'll make a deal... I'll let you have legal opiods, if society doesn't have to pay welfare and housing benefits to addicts, along with no medical care for opiod-induced illnesses.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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It would be nice if it eliminated criminal enterprise, but it has not, at least not in Colorado. I suspect the same would be true of opiates.

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/pot-is-legal-in-colorado-so-why-is-the-black-market-for-it-thriving
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there's a gun around, I want to be controlling it." Clint Eastwood, Pink Cadillac
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Davis
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Fulla-Carp
Fentanyl is dirt cheap, and packs a huge punch. Prescription opiates, it would be like union auto workers competing with Chinese manufacturing.

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Exactly what I was thinking.
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there's a gun around, I want to be controlling it." Clint Eastwood, Pink Cadillac
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Copper
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Riley
Jan 11 2018, 04:38 AM

Opiate use would go up if they were legalized, I’m not arguing that. But probably not by much. Overdoses would go down by easily 90%.

Sure, because then maybe government will stop poisoning opiates.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2010/02/the_chemists_war.html

Quote:
 
The Chemist's War

The little-told story of how the U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition with deadly consequences.

It was Christmas Eve 1926, the streets aglitter with snow and lights, when the man afraid of Santa Claus stumbled into the emergency room at New York City's Bellevue Hospital. He was flushed, gasping with fear: Santa Claus, he kept telling the nurses, was just behind him, wielding a baseball bat.

Before hospital staff realized how sick he was—the alcohol-induced hallucination was just a symptom—the man died. So did another holiday partygoer. And another. As dusk fell on Christmas, the hospital staff tallied up more than 60 people made desperately ill by alcohol and eight dead from it. Within the next two days, yet another 23 people died in the city from celebrating the season.

Doctors were accustomed to alcohol poisoning by then, the routine of life in the Prohibition era. The bootlegged whiskies and so-called gins often made people sick. The liquor produced in hidden stills frequently came tainted with metals and other impurities. But this outbreak was bizarrely different. The deaths, as investigators would shortly realize, came courtesy of the U.S. government.

Frustrated that people continued to consume so much alcohol even after it was banned, federal officials had decided to try a different kind of enforcement. They ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols manufactured in the United States, products regularly stolen by bootleggers and resold as drinkable spirits. The idea was to scare people into giving up illicit drinking. Instead, by the time Prohibition ended in 1933, the federal poisoning program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Copper
Jan 11 2018, 07:58 AM
Riley
Jan 11 2018, 04:38 AM

Opiate use would go up if they were legalized, I’m not arguing that. But probably not by much. Overdoses would go down by easily 90%.

Sure, because then maybe government will stop poisoning opiates.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2010/02/the_chemists_war.html

Quote:
 
The Chemist's War

The little-told story of how the U.S. government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition with deadly consequences.

It was Christmas Eve 1926, the streets aglitter with snow and lights, when the man afraid of Santa Claus stumbled into the emergency room at New York City's Bellevue Hospital. He was flushed, gasping with fear: Santa Claus, he kept telling the nurses, was just behind him, wielding a baseball bat.

Before hospital staff realized how sick he was—the alcohol-induced hallucination was just a symptom—the man died. So did another holiday partygoer. And another. As dusk fell on Christmas, the hospital staff tallied up more than 60 people made desperately ill by alcohol and eight dead from it. Within the next two days, yet another 23 people died in the city from celebrating the season.

Doctors were accustomed to alcohol poisoning by then, the routine of life in the Prohibition era. The bootlegged whiskies and so-called gins often made people sick. The liquor produced in hidden stills frequently came tainted with metals and other impurities. But this outbreak was bizarrely different. The deaths, as investigators would shortly realize, came courtesy of the U.S. government.

Frustrated that people continued to consume so much alcohol even after it was banned, federal officials had decided to try a different kind of enforcement. They ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols manufactured in the United States, products regularly stolen by bootleggers and resold as drinkable spirits. The idea was to scare people into giving up illicit drinking. Instead, by the time Prohibition ended in 1933, the federal poisoning program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people.

Yep, knew about that one.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Jan 11 2018, 05:03 AM
It would be nice if it eliminated criminal enterprise, but it has not, at least not in Colorado. I suspect the same would be true of opiates.

http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/pot-is-legal-in-colorado-so-why-is-the-black-market-for-it-thriving
The legal market has to be able to undercut or at the very least match the black market. Drug users are just people, and like anything else will go where the price is best. Reasonably priced access to (comparatively) safe opiates would save a lot of lives.
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Mikhailoh
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Depends. IV drug users crave that rush. If black market fentanyl provides a better one there will still be a market.
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there's a gun around, I want to be controlling it." Clint Eastwood, Pink Cadillac
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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
A sad topic, but an interesting thought by Riley about legalizing opium.

I have one time read an article by an economist or sociologist that talked about legalizing all drugs.

If they could be taxed and controlled, it would make more economic sense. The thought in that area was that legalizing it would not mean a huge increase in the population that uses it. But, the increased taxes, etc. would be quite a bit.

And, from a social view, since it was legal, there would not be the criminal intent that is currently involved with most drugs.

Not sure I agree completely with that thought process, but it is interesting to think about.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I think that decriminalization makes sense... legalization not so much sense. Prohibition is bad policy....
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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George K
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Finally
ivorythumper
Jan 12 2018, 02:37 PM
I think that decriminalization makes sense... legalization not so much sense.
OK - I'm ignorant here. What's the difference.

If something is illegal, is it not also criminal?
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jan 12 2018, 02:37 PM
I think that decriminalization makes sense... legalization not so much sense. Prohibition is bad policy....
Decriminalization still leaves production unregulated and wouldn’t solve the overdose problem we’re talking about here.
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Jan 12 2018, 02:42 PM
ivorythumper
Jan 12 2018, 02:37 PM
I think that decriminalization makes sense... legalization not so much sense.
OK - I'm ignorant here. What's the difference.

If something is illegal, is it not also criminal?
Well it’s illegal to forget to put more change in the parking meter, but I’d hardly call it criminal.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Riley
Jan 12 2018, 04:30 PM
George K
Jan 12 2018, 02:42 PM
ivorythumper
Jan 12 2018, 02:37 PM
I think that decriminalization makes sense... legalization not so much sense.
OK - I'm ignorant here. What's the difference.

If something is illegal, is it not also criminal?
Well it’s illegal to forget to put more change in the parking meter, but I’d hardly call it criminal.

Isn't this why words have definitions?


The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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