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How about addressing the issues of the protest
Topic Started: Sep 25 2017, 04:12 PM (479 Views)
Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Personally, I think it's time for mandatory body cameras on police, primarily for their own protection. I also believe that increased mandatory training (and retraining) is necessary (again, for their own protection) and more of it needs to be in areas such as conflict resolution and de-escalation. I believe we need to invest much more research into how to reduce the danger to police in traffic stops.

How would you guys fix things?
Edited by Luke's Dad, Sep 25 2017, 04:13 PM.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
I think that no matter what you do, you have an inherently fallible system. People policing people will never be error free.

I think some gains can be made. Body cameras, cruiser cams, etc. Perhaps the most important would be a minimum standard level of training for any level of law enforcement. And pay levels which attract good people...For example, it's widely known New Orleans cops are corrupt, but if you look at what they are paid vs. the risks they take, people look the other way when the cops engage in petty graft.

But folks on the other side of the equation need fixing, too. I bet most of the current protesting NFL players no longer live in the hood. They got out of that mess as soon as they could. BLM, except to other blacks.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Shortstop

I know nothing at all about being a policeman.

But once I heard that the nfl was supporting cop killing I might look for a different career.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Everyone wants to fault the police, but no one is asking the chicken-egg question. Are the cops we hire racist to begin with or is it learned on the job? I think the latter, if the cops I have known are telling me the truth.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
I would hope that most cops come from a background, where they pulled plenty of mischief when young, did some things they are not proud of, maybe even got into some trouble and then turned their life around. I do not think that someone that got straight A's in school, always a moral prude leader, squeeky-clean etc., would make a good cop. After all, there is a judge/jury/sentence inherent every time a cop deals with a situation, and what should be considered as next steps.

As a generalization, compared to when I was young, police today do not have as much latitude. There have been so many policies and required procedures over the years to take the subjective decisions away from the cops. That's good in a way, maybe not so good in other ways. Same perspective with body cameras: good idea, but I would not want to wear one, where every decision I make could be spun by somebody externally or internally, and not for my benefit.

All patrol officers should receive professional development and counseling IMO. Not just to make them better at dealing with the public, but to address the fact that they are under tremendous pressure daily. I mean, who would want a job, where you are only called when something goes wrong, or something is about to go very wrong. Drunks, drugs, smart-ass "I Know My Rights" lowlife, dead kids in a car accident, and so on. Day after day of negative interractions would certainly get to me on a personal level, and would certainly affect my job performance and decision-making.

All of my ideas above are good ones. But there is always the same answer for this type of "good idea" perspective: not enough money in the budget.
That being said, it could be an expanded role for the federal government, to provide additional funding in terms of mental health access and professional development, in addition to funding professional development to improve understandings of community needs based on demographics.

I would like the red lights and siren part of the job. Yeah, I'd like that a lot!!
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
One of the left's favorite debate cards is that oppressor class people can't understand oppressed class people, because they lack the experiences of the oppressed.

I think that idea has some merit, though it's made imbecilic and overtly racist when we try to apply it based exclusively on skin color.

I think the idea has much more merit if we apply it to cops and their experiences. I think most of us don't have much of an understanding of the perspective of a beat cop in Baltimore. Or Chicago. Or Milwaukee. Etc.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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xenon
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The U.S. also has some massive issues with crime in general. Way out of step with other developed nations. (On a bunch of fronts: violent crime, deaths by police, incarceration rates, etc.)

What's the cause?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:03 PM
The U.S. also has some massive issues with crime in general. Way out of step with other developed nations. (On a bunch of fronts: violent crime, deaths by police, incarceration rates, etc.)

What's the cause?
Freedom.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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xenon
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Jolly
Sep 25 2017, 08:30 PM
xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:03 PM
The U.S. also has some massive issues with crime in general. Way out of step with other developed nations. (On a bunch of fronts: violent crime, deaths by police, incarceration rates, etc.)

What's the cause?
Freedom.
Jolly, I genuinely can't tell when you're being cheeky. I think that's not by accident.

I dunno - growing up in Canada and now living here in the U.S. - I notice zero difference in my day to day life.

And I know a bunch of avid hunters with a range of firearms.
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Luke's Dad
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xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:03 PM
The U.S. also has some massive issues with crime in general. Way out of step with other developed nations. (On a bunch of fronts: violent crime, deaths by police, incarceration rates, etc.)

What's the cause?
Drug policy and laws.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:36 PM
Jolly
Sep 25 2017, 08:30 PM
xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:03 PM
The U.S. also has some massive issues with crime in general. Way out of step with other developed nations. (On a bunch of fronts: violent crime, deaths by police, incarceration rates, etc.)

What's the cause?
Freedom.
Jolly, I genuinely can't tell when you're being cheeky. I think that's not by accident.

I dunno - growing up in Canada and now living here in the U.S. - I notice zero difference in my day to day life.

And I know a bunch of avid hunters with a range of firearms.
So it would appear that crime is not near you. Perhaps it is localized in low SES areas?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:36 PM
Jolly
Sep 25 2017, 08:30 PM
xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:03 PM
The U.S. also has some massive issues with crime in general. Way out of step with other developed nations. (On a bunch of fronts: violent crime, deaths by police, incarceration rates, etc.)

What's the cause?
Freedom.
Jolly, I genuinely can't tell when you're being cheeky. I think that's not by accident.

I dunno - growing up in Canada and now living here in the U.S. - I notice zero difference in my day to day life.

And I know a bunch of avid hunters with a range of firearms.
I can cut the violent crime rate, deaths by police and after a few months, incarcerations.

It will take a few divisions, marshal law and a suspension of habeas corpus (thanks, Mr. Lincoln), but it can be done.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Catseye3
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xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:03 PM
The U.S. also has some massive issues with crime in general. Way out of step with other developed nations. (On a bunch of fronts: violent crime, deaths by police, incarceration rates, etc.)

What's the cause?


Heterogeneity. It makes no sense to compare crime -- frequency, types, etc -- in the US with its melting-pot makeup to a country with a 'seed' population that is more homogeneous. More shared truths, values, goals, etc.

Well, you can compare them certainly; but it doesn't work to extol the one over the other, I mean.

"I shall now begin to speak of purple, which exceeds all the colors that have so far been mentioned both in costliness and in the superiority of its delightful effect." -- Vitruvius, De architectura, 1st century BC.
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George K
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Finally
I suppose this thread is as good as any to post an analysis of what validity exists in these "protests", and it dovetails with Jon's thread:

https://www.city-journal.org/html/hard-data-hollow-protests-15458.html

Quote:
 
The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 today, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the weekend. Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide-victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 “black bodies,” in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nation’s population. The increase in black homicide deaths last year comes on top of a previous 900-victim increase between 2014 and 2015.

Who is killing these black victims? Not whites, and not the police, but other blacks. In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to the Washington Post. The Post categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest. Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer. Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers—committed vastly and disproportionately by black males. Among all homicide suspects whose race was known, white killers of blacks numbered only 243.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
You can't fix stupid. No matter how hard you try or how much money you throw at it. Years ago, stupid died in most societies. Today, much of the First World subsidizes it.

Two proposals:

1. After the first child, welfare and housing benefits remain static. If stupid wants to fvck itself away from the table, let them do so in a two bedroom project apartment. The stupid that commit violent crimes, send them to prison labor and let them spend their sentence doing good for the citizenry...Maybe it's cleaning public buildings or keeping up public parks. Maybe it's working on truck farms to raise food for the poor or for public school systems. Maybe it's road construction or cleaning ditches. But they should be kept busy six days a week, fed well and worked until they are very tired. They should be given some time in the evenings for recreation or education and one day per week of rest. And once they have served their term, they can apply for restoration of all rights.

2. Provide opportunity for people. Provide good education for any who wish to take advantage of it...Through high school and even college, trade school or night classes. In that education process, teach not only the things that any child learns, but teach the little daily things that make for a successful life. Basic household finance, home ec skills, work ethic. Provide opportunity for work through childcare, public transportation and job finding assistance.

Let the cream rise to the top. And if stupid wants to sink to the bottom, let it.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Sep 26 2017, 05:03 AM
I suppose this thread is as good as any to post an analysis of what validity exists in these "protests", and it dovetails with Jon's thread:

https://www.city-journal.org/html/hard-data-hollow-protests-15458.html

Quote:
 
The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 today, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the weekend. Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide-victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 “black bodies,” in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nation’s population. The increase in black homicide deaths last year comes on top of a previous 900-victim increase between 2014 and 2015.

Who is killing these black victims? Not whites, and not the police, but other blacks. In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to the Washington Post. The Post categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest. Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer. Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers—committed vastly and disproportionately by black males. Among all homicide suspects whose race was known, white killers of blacks numbered only 243.
The right-side-of-history folk seem pretty convinced that even people in the future will look back on facts like this and agree that the main issue here that needs to be addressed is bloodthirsty white police officers using innocent black kids as target practice.

Maybe they're right.

I can totally see people of the future being even dumber than we are now. Which is really saying something.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Years ago, stupid died in most societies.


Really? Why were we not told of this!?? :angry:
"I shall now begin to speak of purple, which exceeds all the colors that have so far been mentioned both in costliness and in the superiority of its delightful effect." -- Vitruvius, De architectura, 1st century BC.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
When you are struggling to eat and provide shelter, stupid tends to fall by the wayside. Now we subsidize it in a misguided effort at kindness.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Catseye3
Sep 26 2017, 06:35 AM
Quote:
 
Years ago, stupid died in most societies.


Really? Why were we not told of this!?? :angry:
It's never to late to learn!😸
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
A quote...

Quote:
 
One major problem with Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest, is in today's society, for the most part, those least fit produce the most survivors. I hate being a fatalist, but as their numbers increase, this country's chances of staying a free land, populated by people who believe THEY can do better by their own efforts, get slimmer by the day.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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xenon
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Senior Carp
Mikhailoh
Sep 26 2017, 04:23 AM
xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:36 PM
Jolly
Sep 25 2017, 08:30 PM
xenon
Sep 25 2017, 08:03 PM
The U.S. also has some massive issues with crime in general. Way out of step with other developed nations. (On a bunch of fronts: violent crime, deaths by police, incarceration rates, etc.)

What's the cause?
Freedom.
Jolly, I genuinely can't tell when you're being cheeky. I think that's not by accident.

I dunno - growing up in Canada and now living here in the U.S. - I notice zero difference in my day to day life.

And I know a bunch of avid hunters with a range of firearms.
So it would appear that crime is not near you. Perhaps it is localized in low SES areas?
I meant I don't feel any difference from extra dose of freedom I've been receiving since I got here.
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
That's because there is no extra dose of freedom or, as the locals there say, liberty, where you now reside.
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Seems "freedom" back in the day was about having to pay taxes and whether you agreed with where the taxes were going.

I suppose for most practical purposes, freedom today can be measured in the same terms.

It's really all about money. Laws don't keep me from doing stuff I want to do. A lack of money does.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Jolly
Sep 26 2017, 07:26 AM
A quote...

Quote:
 
One major problem with Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest, is in today's society, for the most part, those least fit produce the most survivors.
It's wrong. The author confuses biological fitness with his own concept of fitness.

Whichever genes are being replicated the most are winning the (biological) fitness game by definition.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
He or she is wrong pedantically but he or she is not wrong in a way that argues against his or her intended point.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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