| Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Trump UN Speech | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 19 2017, 03:17 PM (1,251 Views) | |
| Renauda | Sep 20 2017, 07:24 AM Post #26 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/in-war-of-elton-john-lyrics-kim-jong-un-calls-trump-honky-cat?mbid=social_facebook |
![]() |
|
| George K | Sep 20 2017, 07:26 AM Post #27 |
|
Finally
|
I think, perhaps, "The Bitch is Back" might work as well. Whoopsie! Borowitz said it too! Edited by George K, Sep 20 2017, 07:27 AM.
|
|
A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
![]() |
|
| Catseye3 | Sep 20 2017, 07:27 AM Post #28 |
|
Fulla-Carp
|
|
| "I shall now begin to speak of purple, which exceeds all the colors that have so far been mentioned both in costliness and in the superiority of its delightful effect." -- Vitruvius, De architectura, 1st century BC. | |
![]() |
|
| Mikhailoh | Sep 20 2017, 07:28 AM Post #29 |
|
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
|
Empathy is a fine thing and seriously applied to Vietnam where the desires were the desires of the people. In North Korea the only people that matter are Kim and the military heads. The same situation does not exist. What do they want? To keep their regime - and their necks - intact. The desires of the people are of little consequence to them. |
|
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
![]() |
|
| Aqua Letifer | Sep 20 2017, 07:32 AM Post #30 |
|
ZOOOOOM!
|
Well, we don't care that much about the North Korean people, either; at least not so much that we actually do something to help them. So, you're right, this is between us and the North Korean regime. We need to understand what they want out of this. It's either that or we go to war. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
![]() |
|
| Copper | Sep 20 2017, 07:57 AM Post #31 |
|
Shortstop
|
That depends on which "we" you are talking about. You can find Catholics pretty much everywhere trying to provide aid. You won't hear much about this on cnn. However as Mr. Jong-un gets closer to his goal of killing all Americans this aid diminishes. https://www.crs.org/our-work-overseas/where-we-work/north-korea
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/31/world/asia/us-north-korea-travel-ban.html?mcubz=0
https://www.voanews.com/a/united-states-humanitarian-aid-goes-to-north-korea/3692811.html
|
|
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
![]() |
|
| Catseye3 | Sep 20 2017, 07:58 AM Post #32 |
|
Fulla-Carp
|
From an article in the New Yorker: A journalist visiting North Korea "asked [a NK official] what he and other North Koreans thought of Trump. 'He might be irrational -- or too smart. We don't know,' he said. They suspected that Trump's comment about 'fire and fury' might be part of a subtle strategy. 'Like the Chinese Art of War, he said. 'If he's not driving toward a point, then what is he doing? That is our big question.' For Pak and other analysts in North Korea, the more important question about the United States extends beyond Trump. 'Is the American public ready for war?' he asked. 'Does the Congress want a war? Does the American military want a war? Because, if they want a war, then we must prepare for that.' This is not an unreasonable position. This is some big marbles we're playing for. Strength is called for, yes, but strength combined with maturity, diplomacy and delicacy. Kim is doing his thing, just as we are. He is 27 years old. We're the big guys, and we have a history with this kind of nuclear brinkmanship. If we want to be a big deal on the world stage, then we have to act like it. From the same article: Brinkmanship, according to Thomas Schelling, the Nobel Prize-winning economist who pioneered the theory of nuclear deterrence, is ... a matter of creating the right amount of fear without losing control. Schelling wrote, "However rational the adversaries, they may compete to appear the more irrational, impetuous, and stubborn." But what if the adversaries are irrational, impetuous, and stubborn?" |
| "I shall now begin to speak of purple, which exceeds all the colors that have so far been mentioned both in costliness and in the superiority of its delightful effect." -- Vitruvius, De architectura, 1st century BC. | |
![]() |
|
| xenon | Sep 20 2017, 08:07 AM Post #33 |
|
Senior Carp
|
I thought the socialism comment was cute: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PUBL.ZS?locations=US-CA-FR-GB-NO |
![]() |
|
| Larry | Sep 20 2017, 08:29 AM Post #34 |
![]()
Mmmmmmm, pie!
|
Sorry, but the notion that we need to have empathy for our enemy and concern ourselves with finding out what they want is silly. If a guy threatens me, or starts doing stupid sh!t that endangers my wife, and I see that simply walking away will not end the threat, I don't give a fat rat's ass what it is he wants. I'm going to make sure he sees Jesus with the first punch. We've spent too much time navel gazing over this fool. What he wants is not important. He needs to die. |
|
Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
![]() |
|
| Klaus | Sep 20 2017, 08:42 AM Post #35 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
|
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
![]() |
|
| Larry | Sep 20 2017, 08:47 AM Post #36 |
![]()
Mmmmmmm, pie!
|
Let me tell those of you who think we need to "empathise" with this sonofabitch a little about the guy. A recent defector whose father was a high official until he caught the little fat bastard in a bad mood and was shot to death told how the little bastard keeps sex slaves who are to feed him caviar and play with his dick. And not grown women, either. He send his soldiers to the schools with orders to bring back 20 of the prettiest junior and senior high school girls. And girl who objects to something fat bastard demsnds is removed and never seen again. The ones who don't object are used until fat bastard decides he's tired of them, and another 20 girls are rounded up. The defector witnessed fat bastard not liking the music a 12 member band had performed for him, so they were taken to a big stadium, each one strapped across the muzzle of a rocket launcher, and then one by one were blown to bits by the rocket launchers. The tanks were brought in to run over the blood and guts that weren't incinerated and grind them into the ground until not a single trace remained. Empathise with a sick f*cker like that? You've got to be kidding. |
|
Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
![]() |
|
| Klaus | Sep 20 2017, 09:01 AM Post #37 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Nobody empathises with the guy. Almost everybody would be happy if he's gone. But we are talking about potentially millions of lives which are in danger. A good leader does not needlessly endanger millions of lives of allies, and not even enemies. A good leader tries to find a solution that will eventually remove this regime but without getting millions killed. This involves a good mix of clever diplomacy and military power, and the insight that there are no quick and simple solutions. A leader who doesn't recognize that is a bad leader. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
![]() |
|
| Horace | Sep 20 2017, 09:07 AM Post #38 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Trump has significantly more experience being the leader of a geopolitical superpower than almost everybody criticizing him. We should in good conscience trust his expertise. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
![]() |
|
| Copper | Sep 20 2017, 09:10 AM Post #39 |
|
Shortstop
|
Mr. Trump clearly recognizes that. As he has repeated over and over. |
|
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
![]() |
|
| KlavierBauer | Sep 20 2017, 09:27 AM Post #40 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
AL - I tend to agree with what you're saying here. There seems to be a willingness to be ignorant of our own past with N. Korea dealings in the present administration. If nothing else, there seems to be an ignorance regarding the issues surrounding the people held hostage in the country as we discuss annihilating them. While we posture and provoke (yes, I think we provoke when we speak the way we do, knowing how it feeds the oppressor), we don't seem to be exploring truly transformative ideas like helping free the people of N. Korea and allowing them to develop as their close neighbors and family members have to the south. They don't need to be nuked, they need to be lead toward some freedom - but it will take at least a generation. |
|
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
![]() |
|
| John D'Oh | Sep 20 2017, 10:27 AM Post #41 |
|
MAMIL
|
|
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Sep 20 2017, 12:01 PM Post #42 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
Yeah, but he was a whiz at Ford... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Sep 20 2017, 12:05 PM Post #43 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
Define good leader. We've been dicking with these guys since 1953. Now, if they want to mind their business and stay north of the line where their country starts, everybody is hunky-dory. Nobody, from the U.S. to South Korea and Japan want a shooting war. I don't think the Chinese or Russians do, either. So, what do you want to do with this sucker? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| jon-nyc | Sep 20 2017, 12:47 PM Post #44 |
|
Cheers
|
And at Strategic Bombing Command working for LeMay during WWII. The guy was brilliant. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
![]() |
|
| Catseye3 | Sep 20 2017, 12:50 PM Post #45 |
|
Fulla-Carp
|
"While Washington has expressed no 'hostile intent' to the North, Pyongyang maintains that the United States, as a conventionally superior and nuclear armed power, with 28,000 troops in South Korea, and a policy of maintaining a first-use nuclear option, represents a clear threat to the country. "The legitimacy of the Kim dynasty's political leadership is rooted in a narrative of defence against an implacably hostile United States. "For the country's older generation that recall US actions during the war, when virtually every urban centre in the North was obliterated by American bombing, this narrative is a convincing one and is routinely reinforced for the wider population in the state's daily political messages. "Mr Trump's recent bellicose public statements are a propaganda gift to Kim Jong-un, allowing him to bolster his standing as the nation's commander in chief and protector of the country. "He can also calculate rationally that ultimately the United States ... will accept the need to negotiate some form of intermediate freeze in the North's military capabilities in the hope that this will stabilize the strategic situation while keeping the door open to future disarmament. "By then, Mr Kim may hope he will be able to secure a range of concessions from the US and South Korea, whether in the form of economic assistance, conventional arms reductions, or more importantly the political respect and status as an independent, sovereign state that the North has long craved."The wild card in the current situation is how far President Trump's rhetorical brinkmanship will deter the North from pushing ahead with its missile testing programme." ------------ The above is from a BBC editorial: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40913650. What I got from this is that although things are extremely serious and made more so by NK's accelerated nuclear program, there is with careful handling an available resolution, given what Kim wants. IOW, if it's true that we -- 'we' being the West and maybe China -- have something Kim wants, then Kim can be had. Without resorting immediately to war, either conventional or, God forbid, nuclear. There are options to be pursued. We must also remember that there is undoubtedly a lot -- a LOT -- of schmoozing going on between the various parties to this mess. And it would not surprise me at all if some of them were without Trump's knowledge. He needs to stop making the road to resolution even dicier than it is. He needs to stop escalating with his words. This isn't about Trump. It's about the fate of millions of people. |
| "I shall now begin to speak of purple, which exceeds all the colors that have so far been mentioned both in costliness and in the superiority of its delightful effect." -- Vitruvius, De architectura, 1st century BC. | |
![]() |
|
| Larry | Sep 20 2017, 12:55 PM Post #46 |
![]()
Mmmmmmm, pie!
|
Jesus. |
|
Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
![]() |
|
| Jolly | Sep 20 2017, 12:56 PM Post #47 |
![]()
Geaux Tigers!
|
Actually, it did work. Not quite the way they thought, but the evidence is there that production was affected. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
![]() |
|
| Rainman | Sep 20 2017, 01:34 PM Post #48 |
![]()
Fulla-Carp
|
OK, then it's simple. "We respect you, recognize and acknowledge your status as an independent, sovereign state." The U.S. et al., could even put it in writing. Kim then stops wasting money on his missile and nuclear program, goes back to eating. The Rocket Man believes in nothing. If he were standing for an ideology or a religion, I could at least summarize his core expressed beliefs and try to make sense. But, his core belief is a road to self, personal survival, and maintaining via any means possible the adulation from his starving population and sycophant leaders. It must be tough to convince millions you are like a god (best golfer ever BTW), but probably easy to start believing your own propaganda and invincibility. Send him into exile one way or another, along with his likely billions of $$? Won't work. He would lose in his addiction to absolute power, which is his essence, so not going to happen. Besides, what country would take him in? Shoot the bastard and his henchmen? hmmmmm. Could work, but look at how that worked out historically. Use technology as a weapon to inform the people of the reality of the rest in the world, as opposed to the internal propaganda and lock on information access. Air drop hardware, etc. by the millions, self contained gadgets. This is already being done, but not on a massive scale. This could in time cause an uprising close to the top, or by people in the streets with torches. Undoubtedly however it works out, there will be a bloodbath. At this point, maybe the strategy is simply to keep the body count as low as possible. Kicking the can down the road, as has been pointed out -- we're almost out of road. |
![]() |
|
| John Galt | Sep 20 2017, 01:41 PM Post #49 |
|
Fulla-Carp
|
Longish, but worth the read, I think. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/09/18/the-risk-of-nuclear-war-with-north-korea |
| Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness. | |
![]() |
|
| Catseye3 | Sep 20 2017, 01:43 PM Post #50 |
|
Fulla-Carp
|
A few weeks ago, Taiwan Girl wrote that "the North Korean people are already catching on". I was hoping she would elaborate on that. It could work. At the very least, it might roil the internal waters enough to take Kim's attention away from his nukes. |
| "I shall now begin to speak of purple, which exceeds all the colors that have so far been mentioned both in costliness and in the superiority of its delightful effect." -- Vitruvius, De architectura, 1st century BC. | |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic » |







That's why I think we never learn from our mistakes, and hindsight never saves us. 



political respect and status as an independent, sovereign state that the North has long craved.

11:15 AM Jul 11