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| Suicide By Cop?; Confused and dead... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 17 2017, 06:11 PM (439 Views) | |
| Jolly | Sep 17 2017, 06:11 PM Post #1 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41302571 |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Steve Miller | Sep 17 2017, 10:27 PM Post #2 |
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Bull-Carp
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Kid was conflicted. Had a knife. So we shot her. |
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Wag more Bark less | |
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| Jolly | Sep 17 2017, 11:02 PM Post #3 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Or him. I think most people would agree that he should have been tasered, but I don't know if the officer had one. Regardless, he told the cops to kill him and he got what he wanted. It's currently in vogue for society to accept transgenders as just another normal person on the range of human sexuality. Maybe that's right, maybe that's wrong, but it seems to me that many transgendered people are not very happy people and I don't think that always has to do with society at large. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Klaus | Sep 18 2017, 03:08 AM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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If it is necessary to shoot, why not try to make it non lethal? |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Catseye3 | Sep 18 2017, 03:20 AM Post #5 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Good a reason as any to shoot 'em. |
| "I shall now begin to speak of purple, which exceeds all the colors that have so far been mentioned both in costliness and in the superiority of its delightful effect." -- Vitruvius, De architectura, 1st century BC. | |
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| Jolly | Sep 18 2017, 03:45 AM Post #6 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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For him, it was. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Sep 18 2017, 03:50 AM Post #7 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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You've handled a weapon. Probably handled a handgun. You aren't trained to shoot somebody in the leg, you are trained for center mass. So, if a handgun is used, there is usually no shot that is intended to be non-lethal. As for shooting him with a taser, I've already said that I don't know why that didn't happen, as it would seem to me to be the preferred way of handling the situation. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Klaus | Sep 18 2017, 04:20 AM Post #8 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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So you are saying that, at such a short distance, they couldn't have fired a couple of rounds at the lower body? That's ridiculous. And in the unlikely situation that all the shots to the legs would fail, they could still go for the upper boy. Apart from that, after looking at the video I'm pretty certain the situation could have been dealt with without any violence at all. Of course policemen should be able to defend themselves against immediate danger. But there must be a reasonable relation between the danger the policemen are in, and the force with which they react to that danger. If a confused 8 year old girl tries to attack a policeman with a toothpick, then shooting her with a gun is not a proportional response, even though it is possible with a small likelihood that the girl would kill the policeman. Policemen must accept small risks to their life without answering with deadly force. This proportionality of response seems to be out of balance in large parts of the US police. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Catseye3 | Sep 18 2017, 04:39 AM Post #9 |
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Fulla-Carp
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It is possible. But I think it's more likely that it's the disproportionately violent police response that gets the press. The millions of cops serving in the US who don't even draw their weapons during their entire careers don't make the news. |
| "I shall now begin to speak of purple, which exceeds all the colors that have so far been mentioned both in costliness and in the superiority of its delightful effect." -- Vitruvius, De architectura, 1st century BC. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Sep 18 2017, 04:50 AM Post #10 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Why didn't they use a taser? Simple. The call came for a person with a knife and a gun. For that you go in with a firearm drawn, not a taser. In that situation, when forced to make a decision you do not have time to holster your firearm and ready your taser. In that space of time you have knife blade in your ribs. This person wanted to be killed by the cops and made sure to get their wish. The police are not to be faulted here. It is one thing to aim for the leg of a stationary target on a range ... and nobody does that there either. It is quite another when you are in the situation, your adrenaline raging through your system and your heart is beating like a drum. No, you are not going to go for a leg. You are going to stop that person in the most efficient possible manner, and that is center mass. Shooting people in the leg is on TV. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Jolly | Sep 18 2017, 04:53 AM Post #11 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Cops were called to the scene by a 911 call about a guy with a knife and a gun. Apparently, there was no gun, but nobody was absolutely sure of that until everything was over. The knife wasn't much, just the small blade found on a Swiss-type knife. Scott was told multiple times to drop his weapon. Officers even backed up behind a barricade when he advanced. One officer pleaded with him to not let anybody get hurt. It's going to be interesting to see if one of the original officers on the scene shot him or if it was one of the officers who responded later. One thing I know with solid certainty, having been at a shift roll call when it happened...When the call goes out that a cop is in a situation with an armed person, cops will fly in from everywhere. You do not shoot people in the leg. In a stressful situation, fine motor skills go to hell when the adrenaline dump hits. All officers are taught to shoot center mass, although with the introduction of body armor into the equation, some departments teach a double-tap center mass, followed by a head shot, if possible. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Catseye3 | Sep 18 2017, 05:05 AM Post #12 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I agree with what Mik says in large part -- especially the taser meme coming from watching too much TV. I couldn't get the video to play. I have questions. It was later determined that Schultz had no gun. The police couldn't determine this from a distance? From the safety of their vehicles with LD viewing equipment of some sort? If she'd had a gun, the police had no choice but to shoot -- not only for their own safety but for anyone else's in the vicinity. But if they knew she had only a knife . . . I don't know, I'd have to know more. Possibly there were other options, including taking cover and discharging some other nonlethal thing, like beanbags. If they knew she had no gun, they could have taken the time to set up for something like that. I don't know. I'm not saying they acted inappropriately. It's just, Schultz will be dead forever. Do we know from the video where exactly this took place? Indoors, outdoors? Open space, cramped space? |
| "I shall now begin to speak of purple, which exceeds all the colors that have so far been mentioned both in costliness and in the superiority of its delightful effect." -- Vitruvius, De architectura, 1st century BC. | |
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| Klaus | Sep 18 2017, 05:13 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Last year the US police killed about 1,000 people. For comparison, German police killed 11 people last year. That is, when normalizing for population size, US policemen kill around 25x more people than German policemen do. Over-the-top violence, it seems, is an inherent part of American crime prevention culture. These killings are just one facet of it. Handcuffing non-dangerous people and tacit approval of prison violence are other facets of it. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Klaus | Sep 18 2017, 05:20 AM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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BS. What role does it play what the person wants? If he/she had wanted the policemen to sing "Dancing in the rain" for them, they'd have also ignored that wish. I find it rather annoying how most American conservatives will very predictable defend any kind of police violence, no matter what. There's ample evidence that a police can be much less violent and still be efficient. Just look at almost any other first world country. It's the approval and defence of police violence as we've seen it countless times, including from the usual suspects on this board, that keeps it alive. It's not somehow inherent in the job or the country. It's a choice. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Mikhailoh | Sep 18 2017, 05:36 AM Post #15 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Untrue. There have been several shootings I have condemned here. It's just easier to lump us into one position. So be annoyed at someone else. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Copper | Sep 18 2017, 07:04 AM Post #16 |
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Shortstop
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2010 Murder Rate per 1,000,000 people USA 42 Germany 8 Our criminals seem to like murder more than German criminals. What if we moved those German police to the USA? Would the murder rate drop or would the German police shoot more often? |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| John D'Oh | Sep 18 2017, 07:16 AM Post #17 |
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MAMIL
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Ok, going forward in this thread we need to address the following topics: 1. Gun control. 2. Abortion. 3. Different ways of counting how many people are murdered. 4. Race. In particular, last weekend's Singapore Grand Prix. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Jolly | Sep 18 2017, 11:15 AM Post #18 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Although a large percentage of Americans have German ancestry, Americans are much more violent than Germans. As one ex-Marine put it last night on the Vietnam War documentary..." People say the Marine Corps teaches people to kill. They're wrong. The Marine Corps is just a finishing school. Or, as one guy I used to work with (with three combat tours under his belt) put it, "There is nothing more dangerous on the face of this planet than a eighteen year-old Marine rifleman with a weapon and a radio... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Klaus | Sep 18 2017, 11:22 AM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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And this is somehow hard-coded into American genes and impossible to change, hence it's not even worth a try? |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| John D'Oh | Sep 18 2017, 11:24 AM Post #20 |
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MAMIL
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I think it's fair to say that prior to 1945 that sentence would have reduced just about everybody in the near vicinity to hysterical laughter. In other words, what the f*ck happened?
Clearly, it's very possible to change. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Jolly | Sep 18 2017, 11:30 AM Post #21 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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You know, I don't think so. Lots of Scotch and Irish down here...Mix them with the French and they'd rather fight than eat. I can't think of any considerable time in American history when something violent wasn't happening. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Sep 18 2017, 11:32 AM Post #22 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Besides, look at the national sport...Is there anything much more violent than American football? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| John D'Oh | Sep 18 2017, 11:34 AM Post #23 |
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MAMIL
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I've seen the size of the people down there. That's a lot of pent up aggression. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Jolly | Sep 18 2017, 11:37 AM Post #24 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Funny or not, you're right...👹 |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| John D'Oh | Sep 18 2017, 11:39 AM Post #25 |
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MAMIL
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At the end of WW2, there was a football/soccer game between some English soldiers and some Germans. The Germans won, as is typically their way. The captain of the Germans said to the English captain "Ve haf just beaten you at your national sport!" "That's alright", was the reply, "We've just beaten you at yours". |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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11:15 AM Jul 11