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The Vietnam War-PBS
Topic Started: Sep 17 2017, 03:05 PM (636 Views)
Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Rainman
 

The reason I ask, is that it seemed to be revealing a really screwed up U.S. government, and how awful our troops were in actions taken not only against the North Vietnamese soldiers and civilians, but against even dead soldiers, where they retrieved 4 of their own, but left about a dozen South Vietnamese solders laying behind. That's at least one part where I looked up and watched.


Perfectly clear to me why they did that and I do not fault them for it. At that point in time the US troops were only supposed to be there in an advisory role behind the lines and not in any combat.

Nothing awful about leaving the South Vietnamese on the field.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
As you said, it is war. Making sure to retrieve the dead is something we value today. Three hundred years ago hiding behind trees was considered dishonorable.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Davis
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Fulla-Carp
Finally playing catch up, and just finished Episode 3.

Ken Burns is a genius. The editing and history lesson and applicability to all events around the world to present is not something I have seen nor read. Sure there are books on this order or better but not nearly as accessible to so many people.

Should be mandatory somewhere in the school system.
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
Several years ago (late 1990's), my son came home from high school and told me his American History teacher announced in class that he decided to spend one class period on the Vietnam war. Although it was not part of the mandated curriculum, his teacher thought it just not right to overlook something so important.
Always a problem, where state mandated district imposed curriculum needs a rogue teacher to do what's right.

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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
Sep 19 2017, 11:57 PM
built-in VPN? But who would provide a server for such a service for free?
Sorry - just saw your post.

Lots of folks offer free VPN service - some more reliable than others.
Opera offering it is pretty cool, as they're a well respected entity in the browser business. They also have a free standalone VPN utility that I use on my mobile devices - gratis.
It also gets around Verizon's (and other ISP's) data throttling, so I often get much higher speeds via the VPN than without.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
What bothers me about tonight's episode, is once again the emphasis on how evil, with specific and long examples, U.S. soldiers were.

For example, a list of rude and disdainful names for the enemy, the elderly, etc. Raping a young girl for three days and then killing her, killing of two blind boys (brothers). Yes, time is also spent on how evil the NK and everyone else was. It was war. Not an excuse. Why dwell on it?

Overall I would like more of the backstory, the puppet masters, the leaders, the interrelationships regional and global.

And the ineptitude e.g., the telephone conversations of LBJ which were astonishing at how shallow he was or could be, micromanaging to the point of "let's knock out a few bridges" that'l show 'em, or just plain lying to the American people. Ends justifies the means, and all that. Same as now, I suppose.

Good series, but feels like opening up old wounds. Hard to watch. My draft number was 44, I came so close.

I don't think I'd feel the same way about the middle east if I were of age now. Not sure why.


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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Vietnam is a classic example of what happens when you have a war with poorly defined military objectives and politicians trying to micromanage a war.

We dropped enough bombs on patches of dirt road, we could have flattened anything bigger than an outhouse in North Vietnam. We should have parked the fleet off of North Vietnam and denied all shipping, humanitarian or otherwise. We should have done a much better job of winning hearts and minds. Lastly, the South Vietnamese government was so screwed up, I don't think anything could have fixed it.

A bad war, at a bad time. But people really don't remember how communism spread after WW2. We felt we had no choice.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Just another comment...What Burns has not said, is that 75% of servicemen in Vietnam were volunteers, not draftees.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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We wanted to free a people who wanted to be free - of us.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Rainman
 

For example, a list of rude and disdainful names for the enemy, the elderly, etc. Raping a young girl for three days and then killing her, killing of two blind boys (brothers). Yes, time is also spent on how evil the NK and everyone else was. It was war. Not an excuse. Why dwell on it?


I did not get the impression they dwelt on it. Instead I believe it was necessary to point out to the current generation that in all wars, the enemy is dehumanized so that soldiers can do their job.

Again, what was shown and said in the episode was relevant and necessary.
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
Other simplistic random thoughts by me, on such a complicated era and this mini-series.

The guys going into Vietnam in the early to mid 1960's were listening to Surfer music, early Beatles, Motown, country. Hot cars, chasing the always elusive hot girls. Internal social issues starting to boil, "duck and cover" practice at schools, sure. But overall, a pretty good time to be young in America.
What a culture shock that took place! And in just a matter of a few years everything stood on its head.

When I watch the footage of U.S. leadership of the Vietnam era, I'm struck how it was Old White Men in charge of everything (still true). Their WWII mindset seemed to be firmly in place in decision making, as well as their view of other cultures, inferior by definition. Did they not learn anything from Korea? Even the embassy in Saigon had no one in leadership that spoke Vietnamese, let alone anyone of influence that could insert cultural differences and perspectives to grow wisdom.





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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Just finished episode 4 this morning. It's quite good so far. Some of the films from interviews well after the fact are the most powerful parts.


One thing that makes me laugh in the intro -- they say "Major funding for The Vietnam War was provided by... and then they list all the foundations and people who contributed to the film effort.

It would be funny if, just once, they said "Major funding for The Vietnam War was provided by The 88th Congress.... The 89th Congress.... The 90th Congress..."
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Rainman
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jon-nyc
Sep 25 2017, 11:17 AM
Just finished episode 4 this morning. It's quite good so far. Some of the films from interviews well after the fact are the most powerful parts.


One thing that makes me laugh in the intro -- they say "Major funding for The Vietnam War was provided by... and then they list all the foundations and people who contributed to the film effort.

It would be funny if, just once, they said "Major funding for The Vietnam War was provided by The 88th Congress.... The 89th Congress.... The 90th Congress..."
:lol2: :lol2:

I find the series quite good. A bit too slow at times, sometimes way too slow. Seems at times they found footage, and then used that as the rationale to include it for extended segments. I especially like the input from former North Vietnamese soldiers.

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Davis
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Fulla-Carp
The North Vietnamese soldier point of view is a voice we have not formerly seen, just in print, and is fascinating.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Davis
Sep 25 2017, 04:13 PM
The North Vietnamese soldier point of view is a voice we have not formerly seen, just in print, and is fascinating.
There actually has been some stuff out there, taped interviews, etc.

For books, this is pretty decent with some descriptions of the meetings of guys who at one time we're trying to kill each other...

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The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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