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Both sides
Topic Started: Sep 4 2017, 09:16 AM (205 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2017/09/01/antifa-trump-talking-sides/
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Frank_W
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Resident Misanthrope
If they are domestic terrorists, and they are using Molotov cocktails and escalating violence, then this is more a job for the National Guard, as far as I can tell. Time to stop pretending this is just a movement of peaceful, disenfranchised youth. As ever, just as with ISIS, we find ourselves WAY behind the curve. :veryangry:
Anatomy Prof: "The human body has about 20 sq. meters of skin."
Me: "Man, that's a lot of lampshades!"
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xenon
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Senior Carp
I don't think there's much controversy in claiming that there's pieces of **** on both sides. The problem is the very fine people that apparently existed on both sides. Yet to see any evidence of the good guys marching with nazis and KKK.
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
xenon
Sep 4 2017, 11:48 AM
I don't think there's much controversy in claiming that there's pieces of **** on both sides. The problem is the very fine people that apparently existed on both sides. Yet to see any evidence of the good guys marching with nazis and KKK.
Do you think Trump meant that there were very fine people sporting swastikas or white hoods?

I know it would be great if he meant that, but do you really think he meant that?
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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xenon
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Senior Carp
Horace
Sep 4 2017, 11:51 AM
xenon
Sep 4 2017, 11:48 AM
I don't think there's much controversy in claiming that there's pieces of **** on both sides. The problem is the very fine people that apparently existed on both sides. Yet to see any evidence of the good guys marching with nazis and KKK.
Do you think Trump meant that there were very fine people sporting swastikas or white hoods?

I know it would be great if he meant that, but do you really think he meant that?
No - I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant that there were fine people marching with them that simply opposed the taking down of the statue - but condoned none of the racism.

Edited by xenon, Sep 4 2017, 11:55 AM.
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Davis
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Fulla-Carp
Horace
Sep 4 2017, 11:51 AM
xenon
Sep 4 2017, 11:48 AM
I don't think there's much controversy in claiming that there's pieces of **** on both sides. The problem is the very fine people that apparently existed on both sides. Yet to see any evidence of the good guys marching with nazis and KKK.
Do you think Trump meant that there were very fine people sporting swastikas or white hoods?

I know it would be great if he meant that, but do you really think he meant that?
Horace, at Charlotesville itself are you saying there was an equivalence on both sides at the marches? I thought I saw only supremacists marching and on the other side mostly kids and garden variety counter protesters with a couple of antifa types.

I'd like to hear and see the argument that the mix was even close.

Now if you want to argue about the ideas that were being protested that is different.
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
xenon
Sep 4 2017, 11:54 AM
Horace
Sep 4 2017, 11:51 AM
xenon
Sep 4 2017, 11:48 AM
I don't think there's much controversy in claiming that there's pieces of **** on both sides. The problem is the very fine people that apparently existed on both sides. Yet to see any evidence of the good guys marching with nazis and KKK.
Do you think Trump meant that there were very fine people sporting swastikas or white hoods?

I know it would be great if he meant that, but do you really think he meant that?
No - I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant that there were fine people marching with them that simply opposed the taking down of the statue - but condoned none of the racism.

Anybody who would participate in a protest on the same side with visible swastikas or white hoods is insane, if they want a functional place in this culture.

Were there right-leaning folk there who opposed taking down statues, and didn't know they'd be associated with nazis and the KKK? Yes, probably. I don't think the thing was organized under the auspices of cartoonish cabals of hate.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Horace
Sep 4 2017, 11:51 AM
Do you think Trump meant that there were very fine people sporting swastikas or white hoods?

I know it would be great if he meant that, but do you really think he meant that?
I don't know. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he meant there are good people on both sides of the confederate statue issue, but he's so fvcking inarticulate I couldn't make the case for that after listening to his press conference.



In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Sep 4 2017, 12:11 PM
Horace
Sep 4 2017, 11:51 AM
Do you think Trump meant that there were very fine people sporting swastikas or white hoods?

I know it would be great if he meant that, but do you really think he meant that?
I don't know. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he meant there are good people on both sides of the confederate statue issue, but he's so fvcking inarticulate I couldn't make the case for that after listening to his press conference.



That's where I think the MSM really screws up...The country goes off like a bunch of bottlerockets, when any sane person knows what he was trying to say, even if he fvcked it up trying to say it.

That's not productive at all. There's plenty of problems and policy to fight and argue about, not this picayunish BS.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Did the White House spokesperson ever clarify that that's what he meant? I mean, after the press conference?
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
It wasn't just the MSM, no shortage of top administration officials also took him to mean there were nice people carrying torches shouting "Jews will not replace us", etc.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Copper
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Shortstop

When cnn hears him say what he didn't say and fox hears him say something completely different that he didn't say it is pretty clear what he didn't say.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
It's just fascinating to me that we're at a point where people are expected to say out loud how much they oppose Nazis and the KKK. We can't assume any nuance whatsoever because people salivating at their chance to oppose Nazis or lynching-style racism.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
What do you mean 'at a point'? You of all people should realize that cultural taboos are universal.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
jon-nyc
Sep 4 2017, 12:59 PM
Did the White House spokesperson ever clarify that that's what he meant? I mean, after the press conference?
Why would you try to clarify when whatever you say will just be twisted beyond recognition and thrown back at you?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
They do it all the time knowing half the audience thinks its useless spin.


But at any rate, I'll take that as a 'no'.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Oh - and another reason to clarify (assuming he was misunderstood, which I really can't do). High level members of the administration were deeply uncomfortable with his words, and publicly disavowed them. Heck, Cohn pretty much committed hair-kari over them. Had it been a simple matter of Trump fumbling his words, you'd think they would have clarified it if for no other reason than not to put guys like Cohn, Mnuchin and the service chiefs in such a spot.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Sep 4 2017, 04:37 PM
Oh - and another reason to clarify (assuming he was misunderstood, which I really can't do). High level members of the administration were deeply uncomfortable with his words, and publicly disavowed them. Heck, Cohn pretty much committed hair-kari over them. Had it been a simple matter of Trump fumbling his words, you'd think they would have clarified it if for no other reason than not to put guys like Cohn, Mnuchin and the service chiefs in such a spot.

Optics.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Sep 4 2017, 02:18 PM
Why would you try to clarify when whatever you say will just be twisted beyond recognition and thrown back at you?
If you really believe that, why even have the initial press conference? Why say or write or tweet anything at all? Perhaps you prefer a government that doesn't say anything at all just because whatever they say will be misrepresented? Is that "leadership" for you?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Tar baby.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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