Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
Canada's Gift to Rationality
Topic Started: Aug 29 2017, 06:32 AM (476 Views)
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I'd never heard of Dr. Jordan Peterson, but I am suddenly a huge fan.

Ignore the vulgar title, this is worth 15 minutes of your life...



not sure why the hotlink isn't working....
Edited by ivorythumper, Aug 29 2017, 06:33 AM.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jolly
Member Avatar
The Truth is out there.
We've discussed his stuff before.

I think he makes some very rational arguments.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Here

Here

And 10 years ago here

it's astonishing and sad that that guy's way of thinking is so rare that it's nearly singular. But I've got a total brain-crush on him. He does mainstream podcast appearances and is infiltrating pop culture to some extent. He's resonating with millions of people.

Maybe it would do the world some good if our progressive fvckwit culture of sheep who've never generated an original thought in their lives rethought their assumption that they're the ones fighting the good fight against stupidity.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Amen, Horace. I missed the other posts on Peterson. I was talking to some friends the other night about getting him to give a lecture here at U Penn....
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
An article worth reading, not only concerning Peterson, but explaining the whole problem of critical theory and cultural marxism.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I like him. I think in particular his opening thoughts on whether or not the legislation in question helps or hurts transsexuals are well thought out and supported at least by anecdotal evidence. All this pronoun stuff is pure dogma.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Moonbat
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Agree with his stance against the law mandating pronouns.

But... he plays some pretty wacky games with words himself e.g. wanting to redefine the word 'true' to mean 'useful': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdpyzwOOYY#t=53m45s (I really wouldn't bother watching the whole thing, they don't get anywhere)
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Moonbat
Dec 2 2017, 09:07 AM
Agree with his stance against the law mandating pronouns.

But... he plays some pretty wacky games with words himself e.g. wanting to redefine the word 'true' to mean 'useful': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdpyzwOOYY#t=53m45s (I really wouldn't bother watching the whole thing, they don't get anywhere)
Yeah, he and Sam Harris wrestled over that for over an hour. It was painful.

But I agree heís an interesting guy. Iíll watch these videos at some point.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rainman
Member Avatar
Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Moonbat:
But... he plays some pretty wacky games with words himself


Yeah, I loved it when he said, "...articulate beyond comprehension."
:lol2:

It is a good video, I'm about halfway through.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Moonbat
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
He appears confused in that video.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Moonbat
Dec 2 2017, 02:34 PM
He appears confused in that video.
In what way? (i'm 3m into it)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Moonbat
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
I'm referring to the painful one with Sam Harris where he's rambling on about micro claims and appears reluctant to accept that the truth of a statement and whether it's useful for humans to know are different things. (Perhaps I'm also confused and Rainman is talking about a different video)
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Yes, I agree. Well, itís not really confusion, he gets at some level the orthogonality, I mean, at least he knows heís being controversial and making a point. Harris pointed out that it isnít unlike what the post-modernists do with language, using it not to describe reality but to gain power over it (my words, not Harrisí)

They had another discussion after that first horrible one that went much better. They discuss Petersonís work on myth and archetypes and itís relation to religion. Itís available on Harrisí podcast (I looked it up, episode 67). Itís worth listening to, I found it quite interesting.


Rainman is definitely talking about a different video, the one IT posted above.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
By the way, those of you who have only heard Petersonís videos about pronouns and neo-Marxism and college campuses will have no idea what Moonbat and I are talking about.

Peterson has an odd definition of Ďtrueí that includes whether or not the particular piece of knowledge turns out to be good for humanity in the long run. Ergo much of what we know about nuclear physics could easily turn out to be false, if a nuclear Armageddon occurs. Seriously, Iím not strawmanning his position, thatís really it. To hear him present and defend it, and to hear Sam Harris pick it apart in increasingly creative ways, listen to Harrisí podcast #62. It does get tedious. On the upside the podcast starts with them discussing the fun pronoun and college campus stuff.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Moonbat, is there really a video of that discussion on the meaning of truth? I heard it only as a podcast. Thereís a point in the podcast where it sounds like Peterson is driven to tears, and pauses for quite some time. Iím curious if itís on video.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Moonbat
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Quote:
 
Moonbat, is there really a video of that discussion on the meaning of truth? I heard it only as a podcast. Thereís a point in the podcast where it sounds like Peterson is driven to tears, and pauses for quite some time. Iím curious if itís on video.

It's on youtube but there's no video footage. That long pause was something. I had the sneaking suspicion he wanted play those semantic games in order to have a chance at defending certain indefensible beliefs. But perhaps that's unfair. I've heard the subsequent discussion was much better and intend to listen to it when i get a moment.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Moonbat
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Ok I've listened to the second Harris vs. Peterson discussion. It's somewhat frustrating listening to Peterson because he doesn't really make arguments or even seem to recognise points instead veering from one rambling monologue to another blurring the distinction between value judgements and empirical claims as he goes. I'm amazed that it took him 30 minutes to say what amounts to 'religious mythology is human confabulation of moral/social instincts'.

Then they speak for another 90 minutes about the extent to which we should take those confabulations seriously but they only come close to explicitly recognising that's what they are talking about at the end. Meh.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
What did you think of Harrisí analogy with the cookbook? I thought it was priceless.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Moonbat
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Yes it was awesome, i've heard similar things before but he made the point very well.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Dec 3 2017, 05:16 AM
By the way, those of you who have only heard Petersonís videos about pronouns and neo-Marxism and college campuses will have no idea what Moonbat and I are talking about.

Peterson has an odd definition of Ďtrueí that includes whether or not the particular piece of knowledge turns out to be good for humanity in the long run.
Really? Ok, true is a neologism now? (yes, the Trump Haters claim that.) I sort of doubt it. I haven't listened to that video but I do doubt that Mr Peterson claimed that. Maybe if you conflate True and Good, he may have said that. But that's politics.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Do listen, itís podcast #62.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Dec 3 2017, 04:51 PM
Do listen, itís podcast #62.
His attempt to co-opt the meaning of "true" to mean "good" in some moral sense didn't seem well thought out. Even if he succeeded in getting people to use the word "true" that way, the idea of logical coherence would still exist, and we'd just invent another word for it so we could communicate sensibly. He can try to manipulate labels or words but he can't erase the fact that logic has nothing to do with morality.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Thatís pretty much my conclusion. Well, probably just about anybodyís.


I do like his videos on the pronoun law and the opera buffa of todayís campuses.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Moonbat
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
At various points he appears to suggest that he's not merely playing with words and then at other points he seems to suggest that is all he's doing. He's out of his league talking to Harris. Pity, given how powerful a speaker he is when it comes to opposing the more insiduous aspects of the social justice movement.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jon-nyc
Member Avatar
Cheers
Hey IT - curious what you think about Petersonís epistemology. I canít really see you agreeing with him but I also canít imagine you siding with Sam Harris without breaking out in hives or something. :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1