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Blade Runner
Topic Started: Aug 27 2017, 03:58 PM (215 Views)
George K
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Finally
A few months ago I read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" by Phillip K. Dick.

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_New_Coffee_Room/topic/9023478/1/?x=20#new

Really enjoyed the book, and it was quirky, with fascinating ideas and it was pretty "noir-ey."

So, I have to admit, much to my shame, that I've never watched Ridley Scott's movie which is "loosely based on the Phillip K. Dick novel." So yesterday, I did.

Things the book and movie have in common
  • the premise
  • the name of the lead character
  • the location
  • some of the names of the androids

And, that's about it.

I really don't understand the praise that the movie had gotten, particularly in view of the story of the book. So many subplots, IMPORTANT subplots are ignored or downplayed:
  • Deckards wife
  • The fake animals
  • Mercerism

It became a pretty generic cop movie (in the book, Deckard is not a cop, but a bounty hunter) with some gratuitous sex thrown in.

Sorry, I didn't care for it.

At all.

Oh, and the Vangelis score just SCREAMS 1980s. Puh-leeeze!
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
George K
Aug 27 2017, 03:58 PM
A few months ago I read "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" by Phillip K. Dick.

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_New_Coffee_Room/topic/9023478/1/?x=20#new

Really enjoyed the book, and it was quirky, with fascinating ideas and it was pretty "noir-ey."

So, I have to admit, much to my shame, that I've never watched Ridley Scott's movie which is "loosely based on the Phillip K. Dick novel." So yesterday, I did.

Things the book and movie have in common
  • the premise
  • the name of the lead character
  • the location
  • some of the names of the androids

And, that's about it.

I really don't understand the praise that the movie had gotten, particularly in view of the story of the book. So many subplots, IMPORTANT subplots are ignored or downplayed:
  • Deckards wife
  • The fake animals
  • Mercerism

It became a pretty generic cop movie (in the book, Deckard is not a cop, but a bounty hunter) with some gratuitous sex thrown in.

Sorry, I didn't care for it.

At all.

Oh, and the Vangelis score just SCREAMS 1980s. Puh-leeeze!
They're heeere!

http://bladerunnermovie.com/
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Aug 27 2017, 03:58 PM
I really don't understand the praise that the movie had gotten,
It allegedly helped invent the cyberpunk genre, so ya know hipsters gotta claim to love it.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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George K
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Finally
Jolly
Aug 27 2017, 06:28 PM
They're heeere!
:doh:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
George K
Aug 27 2017, 06:39 PM
Jolly
Aug 27 2017, 06:28 PM
They're heeere!
:doh:
Yeah, but this time they have CGI....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Aug 27 2017, 06:39 PM
Jolly
Aug 27 2017, 06:28 PM
They're heeere!
:doh:
I'd like to think that Ford is not just cashing in. Perhaps this will explore some of the deeper themes of the original novel.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
George K
Aug 27 2017, 03:58 PM
Sorry, I didn't care for it.

At all.
That's legit, but look, this is something that should be addressed:

Classical music—however you want to define that—is a type of music, right? And so is Pop? Metal? R&B? Okay, so I ask you: what has more going on thematically, Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto No. 3 or "Hotline Bling" by Drake? (Look it up.)

Okay, so, think about your answer there. Are you some damn hipster then, because you think that the music that tries to achieve more than Drake's pile of crap can also be good?

Alright. So I think we can throw out Horace's ad hominem argument-stopper and agree that there are different kinds of movies, as there are with music, fiction, etc., and like those other artistic forms, some movies have more or less complex thematic ambitions than others. If you don't like movies like that, okay. But I think it's important to not conflate "I didn't care for it" with "it was bad." Also, we're adults of reasonable IQ scores, we should be able to admit that ambitious movie projects exist, there's nothing wrong with them, and that you can actually talk about what the filmmakers were going after without throwing around a lot of bullshiit.

Quote:
 
I really don't understand the praise that the movie had gotten, particularly in view of the story of the book.


I'll try to explain some parts as best as I can from my own perspective. (This movie's in my Top 5. This is going to put me in a bad light by the People Who Are So Independent That They Think For Themselves, but fuck them, I don't care how cliche it is, I enjoy the hell out of this movie and always have.) This is not an attempt to get you to like it, though. I'm just pointing out some of the stuff going on in the movie:


  • One of the most obvious things is that they were going for a noir look, even though the movie was sci-fi. We'd probably say BFD now but at the time, there weren't a lot of successful attempts at this. It was still a novel enough idea that it wasn't tired. Cyberpunk was very much a Thing when this movie came out, but it wasn't mainstream.
  • A lot of the themes are built around irony. For example, the Biblical stuff: the whole point of the movie is that the replicants, who aren't human at all, are exploring the very mysteries we humans have to contend with about our own existence—why were we made, how much time do we have, what it means to have a finite existence, etc. (A neat way to explore those themes if you ask me.) So there are tons of Biblical references baked into the plot. I won't list them here, but find any fanboi site and you'll find more than enough there. Some of what you'll read about is bogus but most of it—the piercing through Roy's hand, the doves at the end, the rain—was deliberate.
  • Come to think of it, damn near everything in the movie was deliberate. The only character to wear glasses in the movie? Deliberate. (Look at how he died, too.) Over half the weird shit Roy says? Deliberate references. The chess game between Sebastian and Tyrell? Ain't just an ordinary chess match. Scott wanted you to notice things and use your eyes to piece together the story, not just be entertained. That's why a lot of the scenes were slow and even at times, they literally slowed the camera down. They wanted you to notice stuff.


I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
(Also, hey everybody. :wave: I'm not protesting or anything, I just try not to talk about politics very much right now. Trying to keep it cool. I do try to keep tabs on everyone, though.)
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I liked the movie a lot, particularly for the time it was made. I liked the soundtrack too, at least the bits that sound Arabic and/or bluesy.

Then again, I've listened to things you people wouldn't believe...
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
On a similar note, I have never read Ender's Game or any other stuff by the guy that wrote it, but I enjoyed the move quite a bit.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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George K
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Finally
Kincaid
Aug 28 2017, 06:25 PM
On a similar note, I have never read Ender's Game or any other stuff by the guy that wrote it, but I enjoyed the move quite a bit.
The difference is that Ender's Game (the movie) tried to be faithful to the book. One can argue about how close it came...

Ridley Scott never even read "Do Androids...", so he only knew the premise of the book. In fact, as I said, "Blade Runner" was advertised as being "loosely based" on the book.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Jolly
Member Avatar
Geaux Tigers!
Aqua Letifer
Aug 28 2017, 01:41 PM
(Also, hey everybody. :wave: I'm not protesting or anything, I just try not to talk about politics very much right now. Trying to keep it cool. I do try to keep tabs on everyone, though.)
Well, crap.

Now I guess I'll have to take your cap back...

Posted Image
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Aug 28 2017, 01:37 PM
George K
Aug 27 2017, 03:58 PM
Sorry, I didn't care for it.

At all.
That's legit, but look, this is something that should be addressed:

Classical music—however you want to define that—is a type of music, right? And so is Pop? Metal? R&B? Okay, so I ask you: what has more going on thematically, Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto No. 3 or "Hotline Bling" by Drake? (Look it up.)

Okay, so, think about your answer there. Are you some damn hipster then, because you think that the music that tries to achieve more than Drake's pile of crap can also be good?

Alright. So I think we can throw out Horace's ad hominem argument-stopper and agree that there are different kinds of movies, as there are with music, fiction, etc., and like those other artistic forms, some movies have more or less complex thematic ambitions than others. If you don't like movies like that, okay. But I think it's important to not conflate "I didn't care for it" with "it was bad." Also, we're adults of reasonable IQ scores, we should be able to admit that ambitious movie projects exist, there's nothing wrong with them, and that you can actually talk about what the filmmakers were going after without throwing around a lot of bullshiit.

Quote:
 
I really don't understand the praise that the movie had gotten, particularly in view of the story of the book.


I'll try to explain some parts as best as I can from my own perspective. (This movie's in my Top 5. This is going to put me in a bad light by the People Who Are So Independent That They Think For Themselves, but **** them, I don't care how cliche it is, I enjoy the hell out of this movie and always have.) This is not an attempt to get you to like it, though. I'm just pointing out some of the stuff going on in the movie:


  • One of the most obvious things is that they were going for a noir look, even though the movie was sci-fi. We'd probably say BFD now but at the time, there weren't a lot of successful attempts at this. It was still a novel enough idea that it wasn't tired. Cyberpunk was very much a Thing when this movie came out, but it wasn't mainstream.
  • A lot of the themes are built around irony. For example, the Biblical stuff: the whole point of the movie is that the replicants, who aren't human at all, are exploring the very mysteries we humans have to contend with about our own existence—why were we made, how much time do we have, what it means to have a finite existence, etc. (A neat way to explore those themes if you ask me.) So there are tons of Biblical references baked into the plot. I won't list them here, but find any fanboi site and you'll find more than enough there. Some of what you'll read about is bogus but most of it—the piercing through Roy's hand, the doves at the end, the rain—was deliberate.
  • Come to think of it, damn near everything in the movie was deliberate. The only character to wear glasses in the movie? Deliberate. (Look at how he died, too.) Over half the weird **** Roy says? Deliberate references. The chess game between Sebastian and Tyrell? Ain't just an ordinary chess match. Scott wanted you to notice things and use your eyes to piece together the story, not just be entertained. That's why a lot of the scenes were slow and even at times, they literally slowed the camera down. They wanted you to notice stuff.


Interesting points, Aqua. But what about my contention that hipsters will always claim to love Bladerunner? How would you argue against that?
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George K
Aug 28 2017, 06:32 PM
Kincaid
Aug 28 2017, 06:25 PM
On a similar note, I have never read Ender's Game or any other stuff by the guy that wrote it, but I enjoyed the move quite a bit.
The difference is that Ender's Game (the movie) tried to be faithful to the book. One can argue about how close it came...
I was hugely disappointed with the Ender's Game movie. The book is one of the best sci-fi books I've ever read.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Horace
Aug 28 2017, 09:25 PM
But what about my contention that hipsters will always claim to love Bladerunner? How would you argue against that?
Scientific research conducted by the well known research establishment 'ranker.com' - (and try saying that if you've got a speech impediment), indicates that your assertion is fundamentally flawed.

http://www.ranker.com/list/best-hipster-movies/all-genre-movies-lists

The cinematic gem that is Blade Runner doesn't even appear on this well researched list!

So, get on your Penny Farthing, and ride!
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
http://www.ranker.com/list/best-hipster-movies/all-genre-movies-lists

The cinematic gem that is Blade Runner doesn't even appear on this well researched list!


I was surprised that American Psycho came in last and that Edward Scissorhands was on the list at all. So I guess I'm still not grokking the whole hipster concept.
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Horace
Aug 28 2017, 09:25 PM
Interesting points, Aqua. But what about my contention that hipsters will always claim to love Bladerunner? How would you argue against that?
Your basic point holds up—absolutely it does—but I'd say you need to tweak it some.

I'm just basing this on my personal experience, but I've seen Bladerunner in theatres a lot, so I feel like my sample size is large enough to draw solid conclusions.

Sure, there are hipsters who claim to love the movie. But they aren't the largest fan base, not by a country mile. For every one hipster in the audience, you're going to see twenty nerds.

I'm talking guys-over-40-with-long-hair-and-glasses, women-with-green-hair-and-t-shirts-with-Harry-Potter-puns, awkward-sounding-laughs, Motorhead-makes-me-feel-more-hardcore-than-I-obviously-look, I'm-still-using-Pathfinder-I-hate-v5 fucking nerds. And they're there because they really want to be.

I've seen hipsters try to talk to nerds about this movie, and I tell you, it's a total blast.

The hipster has all the conversational prowess that his Twitter following affords him, and so he is ill-equipped to carry on any conversation past his one-liner. The nerd has no social graces whatever.

" 'Fiery the angels fell,' right?"
"What?"
"You know, what Roy said to the, uh, the genetic guy, the—"
"Chew."
*snaps fingers* "Yeah."
"What about it?"
"...I'm saying, that's going to be my new e-mail signat—"
"He's quoting William Blake. But actually he got it wrong on purpose. It's not really Orcs like in Lord of the Rings, it's this whole other guy, who, like, through this evil badass stuff, brings about creativity or some shit. It's heavy dope, man."
"...anyway, definitely my next gif."
[awesome facial reaction]
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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