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Politicians then and now
Topic Started: Jul 28 2017, 06:23 AM (128 Views)
Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
So, I was in the library of congress yesterday and learned a lot about Thomas Jefferson. I was rather impressed. He was a very educated man, and not just in one field but in many. He was interested in everything from botany to philosophy, and spoke several languages. He was also a great leader. Overall, leaving quibbles about slavery aside, he was a man to look up to. Similarly impressive political figures can be found in other countries at earlier times. Frederick the Great comes to mind, or Otto von Bismarck, or Winston Churchill.

If you look at today's political figures, I'm much less impressed, to put it mildly. Trump is maybe an extreme example, but power-hungry populists who supposedly speak the "language of the people" are everywhere, regardless of left-wing or right-wing populism.

I think the problem is not that people like Jefferson don't exist anymore. I personally know a couple of people who I'd classify in the same category. But those people don't go into politics anymore.

I wonder whether the combination of democracy with modern (social) media automatically leads to a kind of populist anti-meritocracy.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Copper
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Shortstop
Klaus
Jul 28 2017, 06:23 AM

But those people don't go into politics anymore.

We have to bring Civics class back to secondary school.

And maybe bring back the draft, with alternatives for those unfit to serve.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I generally agree. A few contributory points:

Modern education (since the 20's -- John Dewey and the technocrats) have stripped away the moral and classical formation. We don't have great statesman (or very good citizens) because our society does not form them, rather just good worker bees who are given all sorts of playthings to keep them entertained while not working.

Jefferson, and every other educated man of his age, was highly literate and expansive. He spoke English, French, Latin, and Italian, read Spanish and Greek (he even dabbled in German). Not untypical, so he had access to the great thinkers of antiquity and the Western tradition, again as any educated man of his day did.

"populist anti-meritocracy" -- I think most of politics then, like today, is more a sort of embedded aristocracy from which the "meritocracy" arises. I would guess most national politicians come from solidly upper middle class backgrounds if not real wealth, and are cultivated in the right schools from high school on.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Modern education . . . have stripped away the moral and classical formation. We don't have great statesman (or very good citizens) because our society does not form them, rather just good worker bees who are given all sorts of playthings to keep them entertained while not working.


IvoryThumper, I pronounce you King of America. :hug:
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Catseye3
Jul 28 2017, 06:57 AM
Quote:
 
Modern education . . . have stripped away the moral and classical formation. We don't have great statesman (or very good citizens) because our society does not form them, rather just good worker bees who are given all sorts of playthings to keep them entertained while not working.


IvoryThumper, I pronounce you King of America. :hug:
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
you forgot "Protector of the Realm, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, First of his Name, and Mother (?) of Dragons".
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Davis
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Fulla-Carp
I think you could generally apply the same logic to just about any field anymore. The more you really know about a person the more mere mortal they become. Importantly, how we measure success has changed and the competition has improved too.

You can find your hero today in Wonder Woman or Spider-Man or a Transformer or any number of DC or Marvel figures.
Edited by Davis, Jul 28 2017, 05:03 PM.
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
Jul 28 2017, 06:44 AM
I generally agree. A few contributory points:

Modern education (since the 20's -- John Dewey and the technocrats) have stripped away the moral and classical formation. We don't have great statesman (or very good citizens) because our society does not form them, rather just good worker bees who are given all sorts of playthings to keep them entertained while not working.

Jefferson, and every other educated man of his age, was highly literate and expansive. He spoke English, French, Latin, and Italian, read Spanish and Greek (he even dabbled in German). Not untypical, so he had access to the great thinkers of antiquity and the Western tradition, again as any educated man of his day did.

"populist anti-meritocracy" -- I think most of politics then, like today, is more a sort of embedded aristocracy from which the "meritocracy" arises. I would guess most national politicians come from solidly upper middle class backgrounds if not real wealth, and are cultivated in the right schools from high school on.
And he died broke.

That sort of thing is no longer tolerated.
Wag more
Bark less
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
The 24 hour news cycle does not lend itself to the creation of statesmen.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Democracy ... the people get the statesmen they vote for.
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