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Is Germany hurting the world economy?
Topic Started: Jul 26 2017, 05:48 AM (221 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Largest trading surplus in the world, 100B more than China.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Germany isn't a person who decides to "hurt" the economy. It's just free market. I wonder whether Trump and others who also sing from the same "anti free trade" book have ever considered the possibility that the surplus can simply be explained by the competitiveness of our products?

We'd gladly buy more American cars if they wouldn't suck so much.

Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Copper
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Shortstop

I'm surprised more Americans don't have that same attitude. Maybe Mr. Trump can fix that.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
The "American cars suck" thing is a myth. Today, American car makers are building some very good vehicles. The "German cars are superior" thing is also to some degree a myth. I have tried my best to want a Mercedes.. but to me, they're just not quite what the hype says they are.

But I agree with your larger point.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Also, we used to buy many fine American products, such as jeans, or computers, but you decided to move the production elsewhere. The problem is home-made.

How about stopping the whining and instead make products the world wants to buy?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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brenda
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..............
Klaus
Jul 26 2017, 06:58 AM
Also, we used to buy many fine American products, such as jeans, or computers, but you decided to move the production elsewhere. The problem is home-made.

How about stopping the whining and instead make products the world wants to buy?
Amen.

Klaus gets it. Quality matters, often more than price.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
ten largest german companies according to wiki

1. Volkswagen
2. Daimler
3. E.ON
4. Allianz
5. BMW
6. Siemens
7. Robert Bosch
8. BASF
9. Deutsche Telekom
10. Metro

of all these i think i only own one siemens product (kitchen gas burners) and a bosch drill

Edited by bachophile, Jul 26 2017, 07:12 AM.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Klaus
Jul 26 2017, 06:58 AM
Also, we used to buy many fine American products, such as jeans, or computers, but you decided to move the production elsewhere. The problem is home-made.

How about stopping the whining and instead make products the world wants to buy?
No whining.

The thread title is a riff off of a recent article in The Economist:

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21724810-country-saves-too-much-and-spends-too-little-why-germanys-current-account-surplus-bad
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jul 26 2017, 05:48 AM
Largest trading surplus in the world, 100B more than China.
In your opinion, is Germany hurting the world?
Would you like the USA to hurt the world in similar fashion?
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
bachophile
Jul 26 2017, 07:12 AM
of all these i think i only own one siemens product (kitchen gas burners) and a bosch drill

My Bosch drill says "Made in Malaysia". How is that counted as far as the trade surplus goes?
Wag more
Bark less
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George K
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Finally
Some German cars:

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/09/10-german-vehicles-built-germany.html
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


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I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
What hurts are the trade agreements, it's become complicated and trade is restricted to those large corporations that can have sweetheart agreements inserted.

I import a lot from China. No choice, products which were made in the U.S. are no longer made here. Import duty, port charges, fumigation of container, broker fees etc. are expensive, but still (obviously) pencil out profitable. Ports have closed along the west coast especially in Oregon, higher costs. This due to labor issues over the past several years, access to low water river systems for ever larger container ships, again etc. charges constantly added on, some ridiculous, until there is no choice but to close the port of Portland terminals.

Years ago, I would export to the EU, especially France and Germany. Those sales are now zero. Import duty for anyone in Europe is ridiculous, especially depending on the import classification of the merchandise. No one wants to spend hundreds of dollars for a quality item, and then spend hundreds of dollars more for import tax.

Occasionally, it works out, but rarely and depends on location. For example, a customer in Japan ordered an item for $800 plus around $400 for shipping, and then very little for duty/tax as the item in Japan is considered "furniture" and therefore exempt from high tax, something to do with a trade agreement after WWII which allows this particular item to fall outside of what would be a more typical classification of what it is.

Again, I import a lot from China. I NEVER sell to China. The system is not set up at all for trade, without owning some powerful lobbyists in D.C.

Selling to Canada occurs, but again it can be expensive. NAFTA agreement decreases the penalty for Canadians somewhat, but importantly only for items that are made in the U.S. Selling an imported (for me) Chinese product to a customer in Canada does not enjoy the break, as the item must be "made in the USA" for NAFTA benefit to kick in. Frankly, they do not, or rarely, check. UPS does for the Canadian recipient to collect VAT, but they do not dig deep into where the product was made. Canada Post is smoother with fewer delays, but sometimes delivery is uneven perhaps due to some rather rural locations. And for Canada Post, there are undoubtedly not the employees which would be required to check individual items in the flood of products which cross the border.

China now sells direct to the American consumer via Amazon and other avenues of course. Amazon has now become a bulldozer, in terms of their warehousing of Chinese goods for now immediate delivery. This is blowing away small business, as there is no way to compete with low product production costs, subsidized shipping, and subsidized domestic shipping by Amazon to the customer in the U.S.

Open up fair trade and better access to retail sales, I'm all for it. Every consumer would benefit, economic boosts would occur globally even the very low wages paid in Vietnam and elsewhere would go up over time.

The system is locked, except for the powerful corporations. That should change. If Trump is really serious about the middle class and not just corporate/national agreements to benefit the mega corporations, it would be huge. But, why would any large multi-national corp be in favor of trade agreements which do not line their corporate pockets and help the little guy? There is no initiative internally to do so, if the market can be serviced by the Big Boys, and markets "fixed" by government to government agreements driven by the influential?

The above overview is of course not complete, I'm too lazy to go back and proof read. Just my early morning perspective.

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brenda
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..............
Also excellent points, Rainman. I wasn't aware that EU import fees had climbed so much.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Trade should be free, worldwide. Trade restrictions are not good for anything, except serve particular interests of a few.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Copper
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Shortstop

Someone has to pay for all the "free" healthcare.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
brenda
Jul 26 2017, 08:58 AM
Also excellent points, Rainman. I wasn't aware that EU import fees had climbed so much.
Brenda, it reminds me of a post by George (I think), where there is an actual code to be entered for "hit by lightning while hiding under a deciduous tree at 4:45 pm on a Saturday." That was not what he posted of course, but he was making the point where the bureaucracy grows past the point of nonsense, but rules/regulations MUST be adhered to, because well, they are new rules and regulations made up by people who are paid well to make up more and more rules and regulations. EU on steroids, U.S. jogging on behind trying to keep up and match genius technocrats and bureaucrats and enlightened government.

I agree with Klaus. Keep it simple, open and fair as possible so everyone benefits economically, or at least has a chance to compete.

I watched a video on Greece, and it was pointed out that when opening up a new business, the tax on the business will range from 78 - 82%. This completely destroys small business from even getting a chance to get started. Off topic, but I thought "wow" in terms of taxation(s) and other inter-governmental agreements which effect an economy. I can certainly understand young people wanting to find another country where they stand a chance for their future, and this applies to the highly educated as well as unskilled uneducated migrants. A mess.
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Copper
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Shortstop

This sounds like a great opportunity for more Germany merchandise sales.

Take a vacation in Germany and pick out your new car while you are there. Bring it home to the UK.


http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/26/news/uk-bans-gasoline-diesel-engines-2040/index.html

Quote:
 
Britain will ban sales of new gasoline and diesel cars starting in 2040 as part of a bid to clean up the country's air.

The decision to phase out the internal combustion engine heralds a new era of low-emission technologies with major implications for the auto industry, society and the environment.
"We can't carry on with diesel and petrol cars," U.K. environment secretary Michael Gove told the BBC on Wednesday. "There is no alternative to embracing new technology."

Almost 2.7 million new cars were registered in the U.K. in 2016, making it the second biggest market in Europe after Germany.

Meeting the 2040 deadline will be a heavy lift. British demand for electric and fuel cell cars, as well as plug-in hybrids, grew 40% in 2015, but they only accounted for less than 3% of the market.

Still, experts say sales of clean cars are likely to continue on their dramatic upward trajectory.
"Ending diesel and petrol car sales by 2040 is a step in the right direction but given that electric cars are coming anyway this is probably pretty irrelevant. It's a bit like saying we're banning the sale of steam engines by 2040," said David Bailey, a professor of industrial strategy at Aston Business School.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Klaus
Jul 26 2017, 09:01 AM
Trade should be free, worldwide. Trade restrictions are not good for anything, except serve particular interests of a few.
Maybe.

People can and do corner the market for some products.

Sometimes, the destruction of a domestic industry has severe complications for national defense.

Free trade can be a very complicated subject.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
OK, one can make an argument that food and weapons industry do perhaps deserve some protection in that their non-existence in a country would be bad in the case of a war.

But there are not many such exceptions. In particular, free trade today is much more restricted than it should be.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
Pretty much all food packaging equipment comes from Germany.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
Jul 26 2017, 09:01 AM
Trade should be free, worldwide. Trade restrictions are not good for anything, except serve particular interests of a few.
Should labor not be free to move about?
Move the manufacturing to the labor, or move the labor to the manufacturing ... are they economically all that different?
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Jul 27 2017, 12:01 AM
Klaus
Jul 26 2017, 09:01 AM
Trade should be free, worldwide. Trade restrictions are not good for anything, except serve particular interests of a few.
Should labor not be free to move about?
Move the manufacturing to the labor, or move the labor to the manufacturing ... are they economically all that different?
That idea seems to be incompatible with having a social system.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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