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Just wonderin
Topic Started: Jun 24 2017, 02:13 AM (511 Views)
bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
So if Russian meddling in the election is all fake news, why should the Obama administration be blamed for not doing enough to stop it?

I'm just not seeing the logic.

Edited by bachophile, Jun 24 2017, 02:14 AM.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Copper
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Shortstop

Mr Obama helping Ms. Clinton by talking about unproven Russian interference might be seen as evidence of the rigged election that Mr. Trump was talking about.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
That's not what Donald said. He took the obamans to task for being too weak on the Russians.

"Just out: The Obama Administration knew far in advance of November 8th about election meddling by Russia. Did nothing about it. WHY?"


"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Copper
Jun 24 2017, 02:59 AM
Mr Obama helping Ms. Clinton by talking about unproven Russian interference might be seen as evidence of the rigged election that Mr. Trump was talking about.
Russian interference is not unproven. The unproven bit is collusion with the Trump campaign.



I find it a real shame that the idea of Russian interference in the campaign is so wrapped up with the question of the legitimacy of Trump's victory. Of course it's inevitable, but it skews the motivations and actions of all involved. Trump's legitimacy aside, the interference was impressive and unprecedented, here anyway (Russia has done similar things in Europe, especially Ukraine).

This is important and goes beyond Trump and 2016 - Russia's not done yet. People - even Trump voters - should care greatly about this.



In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
There's no logic in any of it. It is, as Jon says, an issue we should care about, but not one that should be used to beat on our officials.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
The dems keep chasing the collusion theory down a rabbit hole, while ignoring the fact that Ms. Clinton helped transfer to Russia about 1/3 of our uranium. And after that, her husband JUST HAPPENED to get a large speaking fee from her Russian friends...Schumer, Pelosi & Co. sure have selective memories...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 02:13 AM
So if Russian meddling in the election is all fake news, why should the Obama administration be blamed for not doing enough to stop it?

I'm just not seeing the logic.

It's the same branch of logic that Trump used to first say that Comey's testimony was filled with lies, but also simultaneously completely vindicated him.

We've had the new math. Now we have the new logic.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Tobster
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bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 03:37 AM
That's not what Donald said. He took the obamans to task for being too weak on the Russians.

"Just out: The Obama Administration knew far in advance of November 8th about election meddling by Russia. Did nothing about it. WHY?"


When the report of Russian meddling in the 2016 election was sent to Obama in the summer of 2016, Russian efforts to disrupt elections was nothing new and the intelligence community admitted it had gone on for years. Also worth noting is at the time of the report, Hillary Clinton was considered a slam dunk to win in November. This is key as to why nothing was done or reported on Russia until AFTER the election.

Why would the Obama administration take action on the report prior to November? Hillary was projected to win and releasing the report would taint her victory. One may also wonder if Hillary had won the election, would the Russian hacking story exist in the public debate? With Hillary Clinton in the White House, how much news coverage of Russian hacking would we have seen and read about in the past six months? Just wondering . . .

Russian hacking became big news once Trump won, is it fake news? A better question . . . is it credible news when viewed as the catalyst for Trump's election.

This is not about Russian interference in elections, it is about trying to de-legitimize the Trump election using Russian hacking as their weapon. Why wasn't Russian interference in the 2012 or 2008 election ever discussed or acted upon? The intelligence agency assure us it has been happening for years. Up until the time HRC lost the election it was a non starter, why?

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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
All I wondered about was trumps internal inconsistency.
One day He says it's fake ( ...Why did Democratic National Committee turn down the DHS offer to protect against hacks (long prior to election). It's all a big Dem HOAX!) and another u say aha, Obama should have done something. If it's a hoax, then why should he care what Obama did or didn't do?
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Tobster's comment is an excellent reminder that we ordinaries are always unaware of what actually goes on. What we "know" is what the news agencies choose to tell us. And what they know is what the PTB choose to tell them. We can't even rely on knowing if what we read is a consistent percentage of the whole bolus. Is it 50%? Ten? Two?

That's why discussions of this sort are futile, really. Fun, but you can't take them seriously. We're mostly just pumping ourselves up and wallowing in illusion.




Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
I don't think the Russians affected the election. They meddled. But trump won regardless. So I don't try to deligitimize the election. It's just when he is so inconsistent he appears to be incompetent.
Maybe he is competent. But he looks foolish when he contradicts himself.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
Same with the reason for comeys firing. One day it's because he is not liked by rank and file FBI. Next day because he handled the Hilary email poorly. And finally because of the Russia thing.

It's just ranting without any reasonable thoughts behind it.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jun 24 2017, 04:50 AM
The dems keep chasing the collusion theory down a rabbit hole, while ignoring the fact that Ms. Clinton helped transfer to Russia about 1/3 of our uranium. And after that, her husband JUST HAPPENED to get a large speaking fee from her Russian friends.
Sure Jolly, you tell 'em.

http://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.5.1106/full/
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Copper
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jon-nyc
Jun 24 2017, 03:43 AM
Copper
Jun 24 2017, 02:59 AM
Mr Obama helping Ms. Clinton by talking about unproven Russian interference might be seen as evidence of the rigged election that Mr. Trump was talking about.
Russian interference is not unproven.

It was unproven in October - at least to the public.

And it was also at a time where it appeared that Ms. Clinton could not lose.

So if Mr. Obama had revealed information about the Russians it was possible that it might help Mr. Trump.

It might help the case Mr. Trump (who at the time had little chance of winning) was making that the election was rigged because here is this October surprise about Russian interference story coming from the Whitehouse.

In hindsight does it seem that Mr. Obama should have tried to help Ms. Clinton by letting us know about the Russians? Sure, of course, she lost so the Russian story couldn't have made it any worse.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Copper
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bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 05:26 AM

If it's a hoax, then why should he care what Obama did or didn't do?

Isn't that Mr. Trump's question?

If it's real, then why didn't Mr. Obama do anything?

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 05:43 AM
It's just ranting without any reasonable thoughts behind it.
Why stop following a strategy that has worked so well for him?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Renauda
Jun 24 2017, 05:43 AM
Jolly
Jun 24 2017, 04:50 AM
The dems keep chasing the collusion theory down a rabbit hole, while ignoring the fact that Ms. Clinton helped transfer to Russia about 1/3 of our uranium. And after that, her husband JUST HAPPENED to get a large speaking fee from her Russian friends.
Sure Jolly, you tell 'em.

http://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.5.1106/full/
Sure, Renauda, you tell'em:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/26/peter-schweizer/fact-checking-clinton-cash-author-claim-about-bill/
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Jun 24 2017, 06:00 AM
bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 05:26 AM

If it's a hoax, then why should he care what Obama did or didn't do?

Isn't that Mr. Trump's question?

If it's real, then why didn't Mr. Obama do anything?

If its real, than its not a hoax . So why did he say it's a hoax

Either way u look at it, trump simply contradicts himself.

That's all I was saying in his thread.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 06:46 AM
Copper
Jun 24 2017, 06:00 AM
bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 05:26 AM

If it's a hoax, then why should he care what Obama did or didn't do?

Isn't that Mr. Trump's question?

If it's real, then why didn't Mr. Obama do anything?

If its real, than its not a hoax . So why did he say it's a hoax

Either way u look at it, trump simply contradicts himself.

That's all I was saying in his thread.
Mr. Trump is often his own worst enemy. I think any of us will admit that.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jun 24 2017, 06:44 AM
Renauda
Jun 24 2017, 05:43 AM
Jolly
Jun 24 2017, 04:50 AM
The dems keep chasing the collusion theory down a rabbit hole, while ignoring the fact that Ms. Clinton helped transfer to Russia about 1/3 of our uranium. And after that, her husband JUST HAPPENED to get a large speaking fee from her Russian friends.
Sure Jolly, you tell 'em.

http://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.5.1106/full/
Sure, Renauda, you tell'em:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/26/peter-schweizer/fact-checking-clinton-cash-author-claim-about-bill/
I couldn't give a rat's ass about what the world's overpaid morons pay to have Slick WeeWee talk nonsense for an hour and assuage their overblown egos.

I was referring to the Urainium crap you posted about.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Renauda
Jun 24 2017, 06:55 AM
Jolly
Jun 24 2017, 06:44 AM
Renauda
Jun 24 2017, 05:43 AM
Jolly
Jun 24 2017, 04:50 AM
The dems keep chasing the collusion theory down a rabbit hole, while ignoring the fact that Ms. Clinton helped transfer to Russia about 1/3 of our uranium. And after that, her husband JUST HAPPENED to get a large speaking fee from her Russian friends.
Sure Jolly, you tell 'em.

http://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.5.1106/full/
Sure, Renauda, you tell'em:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/26/peter-schweizer/fact-checking-clinton-cash-author-claim-about-bill/
I couldn't give a rat's ass about what the world's overpaid morons pay to have Slick WeeWee talk nonsense for an hour and assuage their overblown egos.

I was referring to the Urainium crap you posted about.
I'm sure, in fact, I'm pretty positive that people paid Bill Clinton exorbitant sums of money for his wit and dashing good looks. Influence peddling would have barely crossed my mind. :tongue:
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Shortstop
bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 06:46 AM
Copper
Jun 24 2017, 06:00 AM
bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 05:26 AM

If it's a hoax, then why should he care what Obama did or didn't do?

Isn't that Mr. Trump's question?

If it's real, then why didn't Mr. Obama do anything?

If its real, than its not a hoax . So why did he say it's a hoax

Either way u look at it, trump simply contradicts himself.

That's all I was saying in his thread.

And all I'm saying is not necessarily.

He may be offering Mr. Obama's inaction as proof of the hoax.

It's like wondering why OJ stopped looking for the real murderer.

If Mr. Obama knew it was real surely he would have done something about it.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
Don't want to beat a dead horse but I think it's pretty overwhelmingly obvious there was Russian interference. The whole intelligence community has said so. The only question is was trumps campaign cognizant of it at the time.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national

Quote:
 
The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.


this isn't the nytimes, its the Department Of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

they are also a hoax?
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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George K
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Finally
bachophile
Jun 24 2017, 09:17 AM
Don't want to beat a dead horse but I think it's pretty overwhelmingly obvious there was Russian interference. The whole intelligence community has said so. The only question is was trumps campaign cognizant of it at the time.
What kind of interference, specifically?

We're votes changed or falsified? Was it disinformation in an attempt to sway voters?

Or was it "interference" the way that some unnamed Western country interfered in the Israeli election?
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