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The End of the Valedictorian?
Topic Started: Jun 16 2017, 05:32 AM (447 Views)
Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
H/T QE:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/tennessee/articles/2017-06-15/valedictorians-days-numbered-schools-rethink-class-ranking

This sucks.
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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brenda
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..............
This trend began several years ago, at least five years.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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George K
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Finally
"Where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all of the children are above average."

It's just another manifestation of promoting mediocrity - "participation trophies" and the like, along with grade inflation. It used to be that a "Gentleman's 'C'" was not a bad thing. Now, everyone gets "As."

Why, now you can even get a grade point average higher than 4.0. How does that work?
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
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brenda
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..............
The exception to all this grade inflation is Harvey Mudd College. They warn students and parents that only 7 or 8 students have ever finished with a 4.0 GPA since it began in 1955. Students who do very well there graduate with a B average (3.0 to 3.5).

Parents and students are advised that it's common for a student to get at least one D for a final course grade during their time at Mudd. The students say, "D for done!" And, yes, it happens.

Transcripts from Mudd now come with a statement regarding the Mudd grading scale, because they are the exception to the pervasive grade inflation. Because Mudd grads are so well prepared, they are still highly sought, despite the GPA disparity.

They bucked the trend, kept standards incredibly high, and the students have fared very well in their post-grad endeavors. I find it very refreshing to see an institution stick to their high standards, despite enormous pressure to conform.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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George K
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Finally
That's really good to read, Brenda.

A place like Mudd, known for its high standards, can do that, and people get it.

But, if you're going to Nowhere Southern College (local branch), a 4.0 sounds pretty good.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Copper
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Shortstop

A bachelors degree is sort of like basic training.

How do the grades work for Marine Corp basic?

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Catseye3
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Quote:
 
That's really good to read, Brenda. A place like Mudd, known for its high standards, can do that, and people get it.


:thumb:

Moar Mudds!

Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
I graduated in 1981 from college. The school I attended, had been established at the turn of the century. Three people had graduated with 4.0 averages.

I graduated with the third guy...There is something to be said for a rigorous curriculum.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
I wonder if this might not turn out to be a good problem.

Public schools are not shining stars to begin with. If this is a move to make them look better, then more parents will take their kids out and move them to alternatives. Then the bottom of the heap can do whatever.
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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brenda
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..............
George K
Jun 16 2017, 07:29 AM
That's really good to read, Brenda.

A place like Mudd, known for its high standards, can do that, and people get it.

But, if you're going to Nowhere Southern College (local branch), a 4.0 sounds pretty good.
Oh, I get that. That's why we have this grade inflation situation.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Alright people, who among you is ready to post your class rank?
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Axtremus
Jun 16 2017, 04:26 PM
Alright people, who among you is ready to post your class rank?
Mine was bloody low. I was a depressed, lazy bastard.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Axtremus
Jun 16 2017, 04:26 PM
Alright people, who among you is ready to post your class rank?
I don't know mine. I guess that means I wasn't valedictorian.

In college I got 4.0s from sophomore year through senior year. Freshman year was, shall we say, a year of adjustment.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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brenda
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..............
jon-nyc
Jun 16 2017, 05:08 PM
Axtremus
Jun 16 2017, 04:26 PM
Alright people, who among you is ready to post your class rank?
I don't know mine. I guess that means I wasn't valedictorian.

In college I got 4.0s from sophomore year through senior year. Freshman year was, shall we say, a year of adjustment.
Jon, you can call it your year of discovery. :)
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Axtremus
Jun 16 2017, 04:26 PM
Alright people, who among you is ready to post your class rank?
I'm not sure, but let's just say upper third, more towards the bottom than the top. Like Jon, I had too good of a time my first year. OTOH, I did knock down 43 hours my first two semesters.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Catseye3
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Quote:
 
let's just say upper third, more towards the bottom than the top.


:uparrow:

Me, too. Mostly out of boredom and daily irritants and changing schools every ten minutes per orders from the Air Force.

Certainly not because I was not up to mastering the material. ^o)
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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Copper
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Shortstop

Grades were upper middle B or B+ average maybe, standardized tests upper 10th percentile.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Catseye3
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Copper
Jun 17 2017, 06:38 AM
Grades were upper middle B or B+ average maybe, standardized tests upper 10th percentile.

This triggers a longlost memory. When I was in the fourth grade the Defense Department did a Department-wide IQ test of all military dependents. (Yes, your tax dollars at work.) To everyone's astonishment, certainly including mine, I tested in the top two percentile.

What happened between then and now is a mystery. :mellow:

I remember, each kid had to fill in their own score sheet. There was a hollow man outline for every ten percent that we had to color in. By the time I got to the ninth man I was so fed up with the whole thing that I never wanted to go through it again. Maybe the answer lies in there somewhere.
Edited by Catseye3, Jun 17 2017, 06:50 AM.
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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brenda
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..............
Catseye3
Jun 17 2017, 06:45 AM
Copper
Jun 17 2017, 06:38 AM
Grades were upper middle B or B+ average maybe, standardized tests upper 10th percentile.

This triggers a longlost memory. When I was in the fourth grade the Defense Department did a Department-wide IQ test of all military dependents. (Yes, your tax dollars at work.) To everyone's astonishment, certainly including mine, I tested in the top two percentile.

What happened between then and now is a mystery. :mellow:

I remember, each kid had to fill in their own score sheet. There was a hollow man outline for every ten percent that we had to color in. By the time I got to the ninth man I was so fed up with the whole thing that I never wanted to go through it again. Maybe the answer lies in there somewhere.
I can tell you're very sharp, Cats. You've still got it!
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Catseye3
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Quote:
 
I can tell you're very sharp, Cats. You've still got it!

:hug:
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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Riley
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HOLY CARP!!!
I didn't know class ranks were even a thing. So if you were, say 462 out of 462 you find out? I don't know if that's really a good thing for those not in the top half. Or does the ranking go down to a certain point?

I had an economics teacher in college who would hand back exams beginning with the highest grade, but only for for first 5 students or so and then hand back the rest in a random order. I was actually one of the first 5 (2nd or 3rd I believe) on one of the tests in that class, which I think was my highest class in college.

Anyway, re valedictorians, I always thought that was just someone chosen to represent their class, I didn't realize it was based solely on whoever has the best average.

NB, I never went to high school or college grad. Couldn't have cared less. :shrug:
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Riley
Jun 18 2017, 09:23 AM
Anyway, re valedictorians, I always thought that was just someone chosen to represent their class, I didn't realize it was based solely on whoever has the best average.

NB, I never went to high school or college grad. Couldn't have cared less. :shrug:
Maybe that's more a US thing? I recall my high school valedictorian as someone voted in by the student body because of how awesomely popular she was - probably had decent grades, but it was definitely a popularity contest. Someone chosen by us, to represent us. In theory. Not someone I'd wanted to listen to, as I recall. Honestly don't remember how it worked post secondary; seemed so unimportant and boring.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Riley
Jun 18 2017, 09:23 AM

Anyway, re valedictorians, I always thought that was just someone chosen to represent their class, I didn't realize it was based solely on whoever has the best average.

Valedictorian selection method depends on the school.

Everyone knowing the class rank is a good thing. You don't help anyone by keeping them in the dark.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XRDBTY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1


Quote:
 
Last in Their Class: Custer, Pickett and the Goats of West Point (Encounter Broadsides) Kindle Edition

Today's Goat, the West Point cadet finishing at the bottom of his class, is temporary celebrity among his classmates. But in the 19th century, he was something of a cult figure. Custer's contemporaries at the Academy believed that the same spirit of adventure that led him to carouse at local taverns motivated his dramatic cavalry attacks in the Civil War and afterwards.

And the same willingness to accept punishment from Academy authorities also sent George Pickett into the teeth of the Union guns at Gettsyburg. The story James S. Robbins tells goes from the beginnings of West Point through the carnage of the Civil War to the grassy bluffs over the Little Big Horn.

The Goats he profiles tell us much about the soul of the American solider, his daring, imagination and desire to prove himself against high odds.



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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Some takes the honor more seriously than the others:

Student Wins Valedictorian Lawsuit
http://sjol.com/articles/?articleID=8694
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Jun 18 2017, 11:41 AM
Some takes the honor more seriously than the others:

Student Wins Valedictorian Lawsuit
http://sjol.com/articles/?articleID=8694
This is so sad. Doesn't say much for the how we are raising our children, if they have such misplaced notions of entitlement.
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