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"Is it Republicans or Democrats playing?"; Shooting at baseball practice
Topic Started: Jun 14 2017, 04:38 AM (1,380 Views)
Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
I have to admit that I don't get your confusion here. I hope you sleep well.

He had enough wits to know about the partisan baseball game and where the teams practiced; he wasn't sure when which team practiced; he made sure.

Yes, he would have walked away if he had been told it was dems.

Yes, you can consider that to be my own personal wild speculation. I consider it to be obvious.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
This intention to mow down people has to have been a big deal in his mind. Lots of planning, lots of thinking about logistics. He gets it all straight in his head except whether his intended victims would even be there???

Nighty-night.
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
If he knew that the field was filled with one party or the other, he was cogent about the whole thing.

It's not unimaginable that he wasn't 100% sure of the exact practice schedule.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I have to agree with Horace. His actions are too premeditated to allow the shooter to claim insanity. Malice perhaps, but not insanity.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Horace
Jun 14 2017, 06:35 PM
Is it fair to say that the only thing that kept this from being a massacre of republican congressmen is that the shooter wasn't even halfway competent?
Half-way would be generous.

His targets were standing still, when he opened fire. He was using a rifle. He should have shot two to three people, before they knew what hit them and then engaged the rest of his targets.

Give the two security folks big props on this one. They engaged a rifleman, while just using pistols. That takes courage. Both were shot, and still returned fire.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Jolly
Jun 15 2017, 02:46 AM
Horace
Jun 14 2017, 06:35 PM
Is it fair to say that the only thing that kept this from being a massacre of republican congressmen is that the shooter wasn't even halfway competent?
Half-way would be generous.

His targets were standing still, when he opened fire. He was using a rifle. He should have shot two to three people, before they knew what hit them and then engaged the rest of his targets.

Give the two security folks big props on this one. They engaged a rifleman, while just using pistols. That takes courage. Both were shot, and still returned fire.
Ok, read the CNN piece this morning. Whoever wrote the piece, does not know firearms.

The rifle used was a SKS. CNN said it was a Chinese variant of an AK. 1) The SKS was originally a Soviet design and has been produced by many communist countries, including many of the Eastern Bloc. It is a semi-auto that holds ten rounds and can be loaded by stripper clips. 2) It is not an AK variant, although the AK uses the 7.62x39 round developed for the SKS. Most SKS rifles are much more accurate than an AK. An AK is lucky to group in the 3-4 inch range at 100 m, the SKS will group around 2 inches or less.

The shooter also had a 9mm pistol.

The SKS can use after-market high capacity magazines, although they tend to be unreliable. Over the years, I've killed three deer with a SKS. They are easy to shoot, with very little recoil.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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George K
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Finally
https://apnews.com/8ea0fba74d2048aeb62aab6e810db4b1/The-Latest:-Hospital-says-Scalise-needs-more-operations
Quote:
 
9:20 p.m.

The hospital where Rep. Steve Scalise is recovering after being shot says the congressman remains in critical condition and will require several more operations.

MedStar Washington Hospital Center is also providing a more detailed description of Scalise’s wounds. The hospital says he was shot in the left hip, after which “the bullet travelled across his pelvis, fracturing bones, injuring internal organs and causing severe bleeding.”
That sounds a lot, a lot, more serious than early reports that just said he was "shot in the hip." Probably has a temporary colostomy, and will need extensive orthopedic work. :no:
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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George K
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Finally
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A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
George K
Jun 15 2017, 03:50 AM
https://apnews.com/8ea0fba74d2048aeb62aab6e810db4b1/The-Latest:-Hospital-says-Scalise-needs-more-operations
Quote:
 
9:20 p.m.

The hospital where Rep. Steve Scalise is recovering after being shot says the congressman remains in critical condition and will require several more operations.

MedStar Washington Hospital Center is also providing a more detailed description of Scalise’s wounds. The hospital says he was shot in the left hip, after which “the bullet travelled across his pelvis, fracturing bones, injuring internal organs and causing severe bleeding.”
That sounds a lot, a lot, more serious than early reports that just said he was "shot in the hip." Probably has a temporary colostomy, and will need extensive orthopedic work. :no:
Yep. When I first heard the reports, they did not sound as serious as now known. And part of my information is coming from his family (albeit second hand, through my SIL's husband). The original communication to his wife was that he had been shot in the hip, but was going to be ok.

Ok, and having your pelvis broken, your large intestine perforated and God knows what else, are kinda two different things.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
The SKS can use after-market high capacity magazines, although they tend to be unreliable. Over the years, I've killed three deer with a SKS. They are easy to shoot, with very little recoil.


How long are they? I may have missed it; has it emerged anywhere how the shooter approached this close to the ball diamond with a rifle without, you know, exciting suspicion?

I found a profile piece on the shooter . . . it seems the truth may lie somewhere between the Mik-Horace school (not crazy, just malicious) and the Rainman-Cats school (nut). From what I can gather, he was fundamentally sane, but definitely had a screw loose. He's an unemployed home inspector, so no Steve Jobs to begin with; he seems to have been too disorganized to get re-employed. Instead, he decides to go to Washington.

Eh?

His wife, also no fireball, speculates that he wanted to get away from his daughter and granddaughter. Anyway, he winds up in Alexandria. Did he have a plan at this point? Back in Illinois did he overhear about the Congressional practice games and decide to go to Washington and shoot him a bunch of politicians? Or did he go to Washington intending to address the "tax situation" (per the wife) and then learned of the games and had a lightbulb moment? Anyway, he's in Alexandria for two months, living in his van* and spending a lot of time at the YMCA. Somebody reported he didn't wear workout clothes and would get on and off the stationary bikes a lot. A barrista across the street reported she'd see him sitting on a bench in front of the Walgreen's. Overall he seems to have lurched from impulse to impulse. No money, but I'll go to Washington and get the tax situation fixed. Gets to Washington and is a whisker away from being a homeless bum. Forget the taxes, I'll just shoot Congress. After I work out.

What's he waiting for??? Two months he mostly hangs around doing nothing, then one day he decides to shoot people?

And none of this answers why he asked that question in the parking lot, but it sheds a little light: He was a random guy. It makes some sense that he planned his massacre -- organized the weaponry, found a parking space -- but remembered at the last minute that he forgot to find out who was playing that day. I can see that.

Still bugs me, though.


And p-f-f-f-t to Horace. :silly:
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*Does anybody remember the great Chris Farley SNL skits featuring the motivational speaker "living in a van down by the river"? His best thing, IMO.
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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Tobster
Advanced Member
Catseye3 wrote: "It makes some sense that he planned his massacre -- organized the weaponry, found a parking space -- but remembered at the last minute that he forgot to find out who was playing that day. I can see that."

The shooter was CONFIRMING his target when he asked who was playing.

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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Okay . . . how do we know that?
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jun 15 2017, 05:42 AM
George K
Jun 15 2017, 03:50 AM
https://apnews.com/8ea0fba74d2048aeb62aab6e810db4b1/The-Latest:-Hospital-says-Scalise-needs-more-operations
Quote:
 
9:20 p.m.

The hospital where Rep. Steve Scalise is recovering after being shot says the congressman remains in critical condition and will require several more operations.

MedStar Washington Hospital Center is also providing a more detailed description of Scalise’s wounds. The hospital says he was shot in the left hip, after which “the bullet travelled across his pelvis, fracturing bones, injuring internal organs and causing severe bleeding.”
That sounds a lot, a lot, more serious than early reports that just said he was "shot in the hip." Probably has a temporary colostomy, and will need extensive orthopedic work. :no:
Yep. When I first heard the reports, they did not sound as serious as now known. And part of my information is coming from his family (albeit second hand, through my SIL's husband). The original communication to his wife was that he had been shot in the hip, but was going to be ok.

Ok, and having your pelvis broken, your large intestine perforated and God knows what else, are kinda two different things.
What I've managed to put together is he probably has a diverting colostomy, for a proximal rectal injury and maybe also had an iliac artery or vein injury. He was in hemorrhagic shock and needed several units of blood which is consistent with a large vessel injury and having heard " he had surgery and another procedure, I'm guessing pelvic angiogram or maybe Nephro-ureterogram.

In penetrating trauma,bullets that transverse the midline are particularly worrisome. He is lucky to be alive. And he has got a long road ahead of him. If he has a diverting colostomy it may be months before that can be taken down. And who knows if there isn't also nerve damage which could cause problems with a lower limb. Or bladder or ureter damage is also
an issue.

The guy is going to carry sequelae of this his whole life
Edited by bachophile, Jun 16 2017, 04:22 AM.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Tobster
Advanced Member
Catseye3
Jun 16 2017, 04:01 AM
Okay . . . how do we know that?
He asked the question, 'Is it Republicans or Democrats out there', he then retrieved his weapons and started shooting.

Are you suggesting the shooter intended to shoot who ever was on the field? If he did, then why ask who was playing? Do you believe Hodgkinson would have done taken the same action if the answer had been Democrats are on the field?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Catseye3
Jun 16 2017, 03:23 AM
Quote:
 
The SKS can use after-market high capacity magazines, although they tend to be unreliable. Over the years, I've killed three deer with a SKS. They are easy to shoot, with very little recoil.


How long are they? I may have missed it; has it emerged anywhere how the shooter approached this close to the ball diamond with a rifle without, you know, exciting suspicion?

I found a profile piece on the shooter . . . it seems the truth may lie somewhere between the Mik-Horace school (not crazy, just malicious) and the Rainman-Cats school (nut). From what I can gather, he was fundamentally sane, but definitely had a screw loose. He's an unemployed home inspector, so no Steve Jobs to begin with; he seems to have been too disorganized to get re-employed. Instead, he decides to go to Washington.

Eh?

His wife, also no fireball, speculates that he wanted to get away from his daughter and granddaughter. Anyway, he winds up in Alexandria. Did he have a plan at this point? Back in Illinois did he overhear about the Congressional practice games and decide to go to Washington and shoot him a bunch of politicians? Or did he go to Washington intending to address the "tax situation" (per the wife) and then learned of the games and had a lightbulb moment? Anyway, he's in Alexandria for two months, living in his van* and spending a lot of time at the YMCA. Somebody reported he didn't wear workout clothes and would get on and off the stationary bikes a lot. A barrista across the street reported she'd see him sitting on a bench in front of the Walgreen's. Overall he seems to have lurched from impulse to impulse. No money, but I'll go to Washington and get the tax situation fixed. Gets to Washington and is a whisker away from being a homeless bum. Forget the taxes, I'll just shoot Congress. After I work out.

What's he waiting for??? Two months he mostly hangs around doing nothing, then one day he decides to shoot people?

And none of this answers why he asked that question in the parking lot, but it sheds a little light: He was a random guy. It makes some sense that he planned his massacre -- organized the weaponry, found a parking space -- but remembered at the last minute that he forgot to find out who was playing that day. I can see that.

Still bugs me, though.


And p-f-f-f-t to Horace. :silly:
Posted Image




*Does anybody remember the great Chris Farley SNL skits featuring the motivational speaker "living in a van down by the river"? His best thing, IMO.
40" long.

More than you probably want to know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS

The SKS was one of the most prized souvenirs of the Vietnam War, as it could be sent back home, whereas an AK could not. A lot of SKS rifles (or carbines, if you prefer) were used by the Viet Cong.

I find them a pleasure to shoot, as they have very manageable recoil and are fairly accurate for a semi-auto military weapon. The problem most American shooters have with them is a long, kinda crunchy trigger pull and a short length of pull. I've changed the stock out on mine, to make it more comfortable.

You can trick them out with tacti-cool accessories to make them look more than what they are..
Posted Image

Most you see will be in original form(This is a Yugoslovian):
Posted Image



The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
You know.... if I were a liberal in this country, I'd be worried.... very worried.

With all of this disrespect for the President, "he's a traitor", "he should be impeached", "he's a fraud, liar, his policies are going to kill people, he's not my president", don't think for a minute that all this vitriol of the last 8 months hasn't had an affect on people like this shooter. There are probably many more people out there simmering with hate (yes hate) for this President and the liberal elites, hollywood elites and ruling elite class in Washington continue to stoke the fire, hoping to bring down this President, by whatever means possible.

Comedians depicting a decapitated President, New York plays depicting the assassination of the President, House and Senate leaders fanning the flames. It's only a matter of time before some nutjob out there decides to try and take out the President or a member of his family.

And if that were to occur, you can bet your a$$, that would unleash a tidal wave of retribution on liberals that, in my opinion, would make the Civil War look like a playground spat.

If I were a liberal in this country, I'd be worried.... very worried.
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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Catseye3
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Fulla-Carp
Tobster
Jun 16 2017, 04:35 AM
Catseye3
Jun 16 2017, 04:01 AM
Okay . . . how do we know that?
He asked the question, 'Is it Republicans or Democrats out there', he then retrieved his weapons and started shooting.

Are you suggesting the shooter intended to shoot who ever was on the field? If he did, then why ask who was playing? Do you believe Hodgkinson would have done taken the same action if the answer had been Democrats are on the field?
No, or at least, that doesn't seem likely if you believe the reportage. It suggests he was wanting to target Republicans.

My reason for asking is that the parking lot seems late in the day to ask a question the answer to which would be pretty important. If he was crazy, that would explain it, but then how was he so organized to pull together the rest of the details? If he was sane enough to organize the rest, why didn't he think to ascertain such an important fact well before he's in the parking lot?

I was having trouble making it track, that's all. It's a detail, like an itch you can't quite reach.

ETA: I see now my error was assuming that his asking meant he didn't know. But it probably was as you say, that he knew it was Republicans, and was confirming the fact.

It still is kind of weird, though. If I set out to do this thing, I'd be dead solid certain it was Republicans, and not rely on the word of some guy in a parking lot. That's on the level of asking a guy coming out of a movie you're about to see whether it was any good or not.
Chocolate doesn't ask silly questions. Chocolate understands.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Improviso
Jun 16 2017, 04:59 AM
You know.... if I were a liberal in this country, I'd be worried.... very worried.

With all of this disrespect for the President, "he's a traitor", "he should be impeached", "he's a fraud, liar, his policies are going to kill people, he's not my president", don't think for a minute that all this vitriol of the last 8 months hasn't had an affect on people like this shooter. There are probably many more people out there simmering with hate (yes hate) for this President and the liberal elites, hollywood elites and ruling elite class in Washington continue to stoke the fire, hoping to bring down this President, by whatever means possible.

Comedians depicting a decapitated President, New York plays depicting the assassination of the President, House and Senate leaders fanning the flames. It's only a matter of time before some nutjob out there decides to try and take out the President or a member of his family.

And if that were to occur, you can bet your a$$, that would unleash a tidal wave of retribution on liberals that, in my opinion, would make the Civil War look like a playground spat.

If I were a liberal in this country, I'd be worried.... very worried.
I think you are absolutely right, but when you say something like this, people look at you like you're nuts.

The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
The British MP Jo Cox was murdered by a right-wing extremist a year ago today.

At the time I was chastised for calling him a right wing extremist.


How is this different?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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bachophile
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HOLY CARP!!!
She wasnt playing baseball?
Edited by bachophile, Jun 16 2017, 06:59 AM.
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Copper
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Shortstop
Jolly
Jun 16 2017, 05:10 AM
Improviso
Jun 16 2017, 04:59 AM
If I were a liberal in this country, I'd be worried.... very worried.
I think you are absolutely right, but when you say something like this, people look at you like you're nuts.


He is absolutely right, he is not nuts.

I'm not sure who should be worried, maybe Wolf Blitzer and his associates.

They make big money by pushing the ("he's a traitor", "he should be impeached", "he's a fraud, liar, his policies are going to kill people, he's not my president") agenda.

They have their following and the ratings have been good since they latched onto Mr. Trump over a year ago.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
11-2, bitches.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Jun 16 2017, 08:45 AM
11-2, bitches.
Yeah, so what?

The Dems are now up 40-39.

However, don't be surprised if Scalise cannot return, the next congressman from that district is named Drew Brees. Did I ever tell you Drew turned down major league baseball to play in the NFL?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Improviso
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HOLY CARP!!!
jon-nyc
Jun 16 2017, 08:45 AM
11-2, bitches.
:lol:
Identifying narcissists isn't difficult. Just look for the person who is constantly fishing for compliments
and admiration while breaking down over even the slightest bit of criticism.

We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
There we go! That's the response I was looking for.


Seriously, I didn't mean to make light of the events of two days ago. Just going for a laugh.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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