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The Debate
Topic Started: Sep 25 2016, 02:00 PM (2,892 Views)
QuantumIvory
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Senior Carp
Luke's Dad
Sep 27 2016, 08:24 AM
George K
Sep 27 2016, 08:01 AM
Luke's Dad
Sep 27 2016, 07:56 AM
How many electoral votes do these polls about the debate award?

The needle didn't move either way and it won't from a debate unless Clinton actually has a Grand Mal on stage or Trump starts screaming "I hate wetbacks and spades!"
(slightly off-topic)

And, my friend, therein lies the problem with a Johnson candidacy. I really don't see any path for him to get to 270 electoral votes. The only possible outcome is him keeping the *other two* from reaching it.

In that case, "Mr. Trump, please raise your right hand and repeat after me...."
This is one year that I'm glad for the fact that my vote will mean nothing in determining the outcome. I will vote for my local, state, and congressional candidates. Then I will write in an alternative to any of the candidates on the stage, go home and start drinking.
McMullin's on the ballot in Virginia and 34 other states (and still counting). You could always vote for him, LD (you too Cats!). Unfortunately for me, he's not (so far) on the ballot in Indiana. :veryangry:
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. We cannot get behind consciousness." -Max Planck

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Well, it's the day after, and here's the tally so far:

* Every single snap poll in the nation except for CNN has Trump winning the debate - often by huge margins.
* Hillary lost support among independents, and even democrats
* Michael Moore tweeted that democrats need to face reality - Trump won the debate, and will win the election.
* A focus group of mostly democrats and independents assembled by the Charlotte Observer in the battleground state of North Carolina ended with the undecideds moving away from Clinton, and some that supported her before the debate changed their mind after the debate.
* Hillary has lost ground in battle states
*California, having already been told who to vote for, busied themselves with worrying about whether or not porn stars are wearing condoms
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Catseye
Sep 27 2016, 08:20 AM
Results from the OTDARBDOB* Poll Answering the Question of Who Won the Debate.


Trump: 49%
Clinton: 38%
Other: 13% Darts that fell on the floor. Professional poll scholars distributed statistically non-significant groups among these according to obscure arcane formulae, for lovers of infinitesima like Ax for whom no detail is too minuscule. They are: Respondents who answered, I don't know and furthermore I don't give a [expletive deleted] - 9%; I couldn't hear what they was saying cuz I got this ear condition - 1%; that Hillary broad don't look half bad in red, for two cents even I'd [expletive deleted] her fat [expletive deleted] - 2.7%; what debate - .299%; could you speak up? I got this ear condition - .001.





*Orangutang Throwing Darts At Red and Blue Dots On A Board




:spit: :spit: :spit:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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sue
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HOLY CARP!!!
So I watched a bit, out of curiousity. Wasn't what I would call a debate, more like 2 loud kids having a playground squabble, but like I said I bailed pretty early. My question to you guys who watched the whole show, do you believe anyone watching it may have changed their minds about who to vote for? I have to wonder how much of a waste of time the whole episode was.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
According to the news stories today, most people were not swayed by the debate, most thought Trump won it, any small movement seemed to all be among democrats and undecideds moving away from Clinton, but not necessarily to Trump, that Hillary came off as a bitch with nothing of substance to say, and that Trump could have done a lot better than he did.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
George K
Sep 27 2016, 08:01 AM
Luke's Dad
Sep 27 2016, 07:56 AM
How many electoral votes do these polls about the debate award?

The needle didn't move either way and it won't from a debate unless Clinton actually has a Grand Mal on stage or Trump starts screaming "I hate wetbacks and spades!"
(slightly off-topic)

And, my friend, therein lies the problem with a Johnson candidacy. I really don't see any path for him to get to 270 electoral votes. The only possible outcome is him keeping the *other two* from reaching it.

In that case, "Mr. Trump, please raise your right hand and repeat after me...."
That may be true. It may be a bit Quixotic to go for Johnson or Stein or McMullin, but the numbers will be noticed nationwide. That has an effect on the next election, which stands to be worse than this one. This is how third party viability becomes reality.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Don't assume a Trump presidency will end up causing the republicans to lose elections next time. It might just turn out that once he doesn't have to campaign and can actually get down to the business of doing the job, he ends up doing a good job and saving the republican party from itself.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
He might. But I rather doubt it.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I think he will.

I read an article a couple of weeks ago about what it would mean for the democrat party if Hillary loses. The drift was that if Hillary loses, the democrat party will be out for decades as it tears itself apart trying to figure out why they lost. And I honestly do not think the democrat politicians have a clue how far removed they are from the American public.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Larry
Sep 27 2016, 11:12 AM
I read an article a couple of weeks ago about what it would mean for the democrat party if Hillary loses. The drift was that if Hillary loses, the democrat party will be out for decades
Ah yes, the four yearly re-emergence of the imminent permanent majority. Where would we be without it?


What actually happens of course is that everybody* votes Republican because they're sick of the asshole Democrats. Then people realize the Republicans are a bunch of assholes, and being feeble-minded at best, totally forget that the Democrats are also assholes, so they vote for them.

And so it goes on....

(* - When I say "everybody", I mean roughly 5% of the voting population, or whatever the number actually is)
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Debate breaks record as most-watched in U.S. history
http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/27/media/debate-ratings-record-viewership/index.html
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
For somebody who won so convincingly, Trump's certainly whining a lot.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
John D'Oh
Sep 27 2016, 11:57 AM
For somebody who won so convincingly, Trump's certainly whining a lot.
Dance with the person that brought you to the ball.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Luke's Dad
Sep 27 2016, 11:59 AM
John D'Oh
Sep 27 2016, 11:57 AM
For somebody who won so convincingly, Trump's certainly whining a lot.
Dance with the person that brought you to the ball. who brung ya.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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George K
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Finally
Pantsuit on Fire?
Quote:
 
After Monday’s first presidential debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump was over, the left-leaning fact-checking community went to work pointing out all the things that Trump said that weren’t true. But they spent less time going over Clinton’s series of whoppers. One in particular was remarkable, because it gave us insight into Clinton’s knowledge of economics: her wildly untrue assertion that “tax policies that slashed taxes on the wealthy” caused the financial crisis.

Here’s the full quote, for context. “Let’s stop for a second,” Mrs. Clinton said, “and remember where we were eight years ago. We had the worst financial crisis, the Great Recession, the worst since the 1930s. That was in large part because of tax policies that slashed taxes on the wealthy, failed to invest in the middle class, took their eyes off of Wall Street, and created a perfect storm.”

Huh?

I realize that the tax cuts signed into law by George W. Bush and nearly entirley ratified by President Obama are a bête noire of the left. But that doesn’t make them any more relevant to the financial crisis of 2008, an event whose proximate cause was the collapse of a housing bubble driven by the Federal Reserve’s low interest rates; reckless lending policies pushed by Congress, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac; and the resultant boom in cash-out mortgage refinancings.

It’s not just that the Bush tax cuts had nothing to do with the financial crisis. They actually did the opposite of what Hillary claims they did: the wealthy actually contributed more in taxes after the “cuts” went into effect. In 2003, the top 0.1 percent paid $117 billion in taxes. In 2007, they paid $225 billion. In 2003, the top 1 percent paid $256 billion in taxes; in 2007, $451 billion.

Not only did the absolute dollar amount of taxes paid increase, but so did the share of total federal taxes. In 2003, the top 0.1 percent paid 6.6 percent of total federal taxes; that share increased to 8.8 percent in 2007. For the top 1 percent, the share went from 14.4 percent to 17.6 percent. By contrast, the share paid by the bottom 75 percent declined, as this table from Harry Jacobson shows.

Posted Image

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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
But...But...Wealth inequality!
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Ms. Clinton has it made.

She can say whatever she wants and it doesn't really matter.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Catseye
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Pisa-Carp
Copper
Sep 27 2016, 12:19 PM
Luke's Dad
Sep 27 2016, 11:59 AM
John D'Oh
Sep 27 2016, 11:57 AM
For somebody who won so convincingly, Trump's certainly whining a lot.
Dance with the person that brought you to the ball. who brung ya.

Dance with the person who brung ya what brung ya.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Luke's Dad
Sep 27 2016, 12:43 PM
But...But...Wealth inequality!
No "but" about it. Wealth and/or income inequality is indeed the counter argument to the sort of stuff that George quoted from Forbes. The rich still pays proportionally less tax if their tax liability goes up proportionally less than their wealth and/or income.

Consider this very simple example to illustrate the point:

At year 2000, suppose Mr. Rich owned 25% of the nation's wealth and paid 10% of the nation's taxes.

Fast forward to year 2015, suppose Mr. Rich owned 50% of the nation's wealth and paid 15% of the nation's taxes.

If you only look at the tax portion going from 10% to 15% (as a percentage of total taxes in the nation), it may look like Mr. Rich has paid 50% more taxes. But if you also see that Mr. Rich's assets have grown from 25% to 50% (as a percentage of total wealth in the nation), that's 100% growth in his share of the nation's wealth. Comparing a 100% growth in his share of the nation's wealth to only a 50% growth in his share of the nation's taxes, I think most English speakers will agree that Mr. Rich has enjoyed a "tax cut" as a manner of speaking.
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
Copper
Sep 27 2016, 12:51 PM
Ms. Clinton has it made.

She can say whatever she wants and it doesn't really matter.
Trump can too, apparently.

This is the strangest election ever.
Wag more
Bark less
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George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Sep 27 2016, 01:51 PM
If you only look at the tax portion going from 10% to 15% (as a percentage of total taxes in the nation), it may look like Mr. Rich has paid 50% more taxes. But if you also see that Mr. Rich's assets have grown from 25% to 50% (as a percentage of total wealth in the nation), that's 100% growth in his share of the nation's wealth. Comparing a 100% growth in his share of the nation's wealth to only a 50% growth in his share of the nation's taxes, I think most English speakers will agree that Mr. Rich has enjoyed a "tax cut" as a manner of speaking.
We can discuss whether that's a factor, but Mrs. Clinton's claim that the "richest" is, on it's face, false, because, as the charts demonstrate, they paid not only a greater percentage, but also more in absolute numbers.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Sep 27 2016, 01:58 PM
Axtremus
Sep 27 2016, 01:51 PM
If you only look at the tax portion going from 10% to 15% (as a percentage of total taxes in the nation), it may look like Mr. Rich has paid 50% more taxes. But if you also see that Mr. Rich's assets have grown from 25% to 50% (as a percentage of total wealth in the nation), that's 100% growth in his share of the nation's wealth. Comparing a 100% growth in his share of the nation's wealth to only a 50% growth in his share of the nation's taxes, I think most English speakers will agree that Mr. Rich has enjoyed a "tax cut" as a manner of speaking.
We can discuss whether that's a factor, but Mrs. Clinton's claim that the "richest" is, on it's face, false, because, as the charts demonstrate, they paid not only a greater percentage, but also more in absolute numbers.
Absolute numbers are even worse. Inflation itself can easily make the absolute number bigger without the rich paying a proportionally bigger fraction of the nation's taxes.
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George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Sep 27 2016, 02:06 PM
Absolute numbers are even worse. Inflation itself can easily make the absolute number bigger without the rich paying a proportionally bigger fraction of the nation's taxes.
I'll let you do the calculations.

Here's a link to help you: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
BTW, if that's the worst the fact-checkers can do with everything that Hillary Clinton has said in the debate, then she was being very much truthful throughout that debate. :)
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George K
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Finally
Axtremus
Sep 27 2016, 02:09 PM
BTW, if that's the worst the fact-checkers can do with everything that Hillary Clinton has said in the debate, then she was being very much truthful throughout that debate. :)
Wanna address your comment?
Quote:
 
Absolute numbers are even worse. Inflation itself can easily make the absolute number bigger without the rich paying a proportionally bigger fraction of the nation's taxes.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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