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You white people need to do a better job
Topic Started: Sep 20 2016, 11:57 AM (358 Views)
Copper
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Shortstop

White people are no darned good.

Especially when Mr. Trump is attracting some black voters.

I believe there are some white people in this forum. You need to do better, come on get with it!

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/politics/terence-crutcher-tulsa-shooting-hillary-clinton/index.html

Quote:
 
Clinton: Tulsa shooting 'unbearable,' should be 'intolerable'


White Plains, New York (CNN) — Hillary Clinton said Tuesday that the recent shooting of Terence Crutcher in Tulsa, Oklahoma, was "unbearable" and said "systemic racism" should not be tolerated.

"We have got to tackle systemic racism," Clinton said on "The Steve Harvey Morning Show." "This horrible shooting again. How many times do we have to see this in our country?"

Crutcher was shot and killed last week after his car broke down. The 40-year-old black man raised his hands above his head just before Officer Betty Shelby fatally shot him. Crutcher was unarmed at the time.

"This is just unbearable," Clinton said. "And it needs to be intolerable."

"And maybe I can, by speaking directly to white people, say, 'Look, this is not who we are,'" Clinton said. "We have got to do everything possible to improve policing, to go right at implicit bias."

Clinton concluded that while there are "good, honorable, cool-headed police officers" working across the country, "we can do better."

Clinton has made addressing police shootings and criminal justice reform a key aspect of her presidential campaign and routinely speaks about the issue, particularly when speaking to predominantly African-American audiences.

But Clinton has also said that white Americans have responsibility to listen to what African-Americans are saying about police brutality.

"We white Americans need to do a better job of listening when African-Americans talk about the seen and unseen barriers you face everyday. We need to recognize our privilege and and practice humility, rather than assume our experiences are everyone's experiences," Clinton said earlier this year at the NAACP annual convention.

In response to the Crutcher shooting, both the Department of Justice and state authorities have launched investigations into the officer-involved shooting.

Danny C. Williams, US Attorney of the Northern District of Oklahoma, said prosecutors will attempt to determine whether a federal civil rights violation had occurred. Authorities refused to immediately answer additional questions due to the ongoing investigation.


The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I agree that she should not be singling out white people. But this shooting looks really bad. They tazed him and he was apparently on the ground for six seconds BEFORE the officer fired.



Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Catseye
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We white Americans need to do a better job of listening when African-Americans talk about the seen and unseen barriers you face everyday. We need to recognize our privilege and and practice humility, . . .


She is such an idiot.

Blacks in the audience are like, "Yassum, sho' nuff, we be doin' dat. Fa ril. You dumb cow."



"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Catseye
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I wonder if any politician has ever, in the history of politickin, ever sat backstage and asked him/herself, "Did I sound like an big asswipe out there?"
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
The real issue gets swallowed up in the clumsy rhetoric around it. Is there racism? Sure. Everybody has some. It is incumbent on each of us to make sure that no matter how we may feel about it, that we don't put any feelings we might have into practice? Obviously. It is the courtesy we accord everyone, to treat them as a human being with dignity.

But that doesn't just apply to white people. I can't tell you how many times I have had a black sales clerk treat me with thinly veiled hostility simply because I am white. I'm polite, I make eye contact, I try to be pleasant like I am to everybody, and I get ugly looks and hostility. 'Welcome to Walmart - WTF do you want?'. I'm tired of being resented for things that I don't do and even my ancestors did not do.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Catseye
Sep 20 2016, 12:25 PM
Quote:
 
We white Americans need to do a better job of listening when African-Americans talk about the seen and unseen barriers you face everyday. We need to recognize our privilege and and practice humility, . . .


She is such an idiot.
No, let's talk about it! Let's be absolutely concrete about all of this, it's about damn time for it.

Where was I privileged? I want to know exactly where. If an employer—even unconsciously—decided to give me a shot over an equally- or more-qualified African American applicant, I want to know who that employer was and exactly how that decision was made. If I received a better deal on a loan, a pass from a cop, or even a nicer response from the mail man, I want to know names and dates.

If no one can do that for me or anyone who shares the same color as me, then what we're talking about is some sort of boogeyman injustice that no one has to prove, and can be used as social leverage at any time against whites. It's unfounded, unproven presumption based on skin color and we already have a term for that.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Catseye
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No, it doesn't work that way. Injustices, wrongs, slights, weird looks, you name it, are only part of it.

I'm white, but I'm a woman, so I have experienced the intangible, can't-put-your-finger-on-it prejudice against me as a woman, for whatever reason. I'm not talking about the more overt kind, but a thing that just hangs in the air. A tone. A glance away when you ask a question.

Here's an example, one of many. When I served on my town's rescue squad, I could be with my male colleague, both of us wearing the same uniform, same badges, same everything, because our status was the same. We'd be at a scene and I'd ask a cop or a fire guy something, and he would look at me for the length of time it took to ask the question, and then would turn to my colleague and give him the answer. He probably didn't even know he was doing it.

Here's another one. There aren't many blacks where I live to begin with, and none working in jobs beyond the very menial. Exceptions stand out. My bank hired a black man to work in the customer service department. A very nice guy . . . I came in one day needing some help with something, and he was just hopeless. He could not do the job, and had to go get help from another employee.

(And I exhibited my own racism by being ever so pleasant and patient, instead of maybe heaving a sigh or wiggling my foot or something to show my annoyance. Because black.)

He was gone the next time I came in. He couldn't have been nicer, but he was out of his element, and I feel sure that management arranged it just that way. "See? We tried, but 'they' just can't hack the work." Probably kept meticulous records to show how they bent over backwards to help this poor soul.

The white woman he went to for help with my issue wore this all over her face. But it was nothing the guy could have called her, or the bank, on.

It's a thousand things.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
OK, so I hear. But what do you want people to DO about it? ALL the attention it has gotten the past 8 years has done nothing but inflame the issue.

I mean, you can go sit on my white privilege and rotate. I fought tooth claw and nail for all I achieved. I had no parental support.

Ultimately achievement is up to whoever feels they are the victims. It's just their cross to bear, and every group has had one at one time or another. Looking to white people and saying "this is YOUR fault. YOU have to fix it" is just on-the-plantation thinking, waiting for massa to fix everything.

Do you think cops all became cops because they hate black people and want to shoot a few? No, I can tell you for absolute certain that what is perceived on their part as racism is in fact learning, and the black community bears the bulk of the blame for that.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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Quote:
 
No, it doesn't work that way.


All you just described were subtle examples of exactly what I just said. Yes, it really does work that way. Either there were incidents or there were not, period. If there were and I was oblivious to them, fine. But if you're gonna say I was privileged you damn well need to prove exactly how. Just like if I said that because you're a woman, [insert whatever], I'd need to back that up.

That's how credibility works.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I was privileged. Not because I was born white, but because I was born into a good family that valued me and valued education. I had it a lot easier than a lot of people do.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
John D'Oh
Sep 20 2016, 01:10 PM
I was privileged. Not because I was born white, but because I was born into a good family that valued me and valued education. I had it a lot easier than a lot of people do.
That's a lot closer to the mark.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Catseye
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This is why I believe it will not be fixed. You make your generalizations, and so do I, and so does everybody.
You think your bias doesn't show? You make a point to treat everyone with respect, but you are pissed at blacks. You think blacks don't pick up on that? Even subliminally?

A friend of mine, a white woman, telling me an anecdote, some little thing that happened to her in a store that day, standing in the checkout line. It involved a convo between her and the woman in front of her, who she referred to as "this black lady". The lady's race played no part in the story. But it would never have occurred to my friend in a hundred years to not describe her as a "black lady".

It's a thousand things.

Think about this. Think how it must feel to go your whole life never knowing if you can trust somebody. How it must feel to be ever on your guard, because sooner or later sure as check someone is going to say something, and follow it with, oh sorry, I didn't mean . . . Or, Say, do you mind if I ask you something? How must it feel to know somebody for years, and you finally decide you can maybe let down your guard a little, this guy seems real, maybe this time it will be okay, so you relax and BANG! out of the blue the guy says "nigga", without thinking. How your heart must break.

Living like that your whole life.

Some work their way through it, some don't, some do part of the time, and some just don't give a sh!t -- all kinds of reactions, just like there are all kinds of people. But you and zillions of others (and me, even though I try like hell not to) make generalizations that involve some form and usage of "they". Always the "they" . . . like Clinton did on that show.

How must it feel to be always, always, always thought of as a they by people who are patently in charge? People who spout the kind of patronizing, shallow crap that Clinton did?

Sorry, got carried away. I'll stop.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Cats, do you think for a single minute that the exact same thing doesn't go on between blacks?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Sep 20 2016, 01:05 PM
OK, so I hear. But what do you want people to DO about it?
Sensitivity training for all.
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Catseye
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Aqua Letifer
Sep 20 2016, 01:07 PM
Quote:
 
No, it doesn't work that way.


All you just described were subtle examples of exactly what I just said. Yes, it really does work that way. Either there were incidents or there were not, period. If there were and I was oblivious to them, fine. But if you're gonna say I was privileged you damn well need to prove exactly how. Just like if I said that because you're a woman, [insert whatever], I'd need to back that up.

That's how credibility works.
Quote:
 
But if you're gonna say I was privileged you damn well need to prove exactly how.


Wait, you think I said that? I didn't; Clinton said it.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Catseye
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Mikhailoh
Sep 20 2016, 01:41 PM
Cats, do you think for a single minute that the exact same thing doesn't go on between blacks?
Of course not. Darker skinned blacks get it from lighter-skinned. Why shouldn't it be that way? White people make fun of other whites for various reasons: Fat, slut, dumb, teacher suckup.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Catseye
Sep 20 2016, 01:21 PM
You think your bias doesn't show? You make a point to treat everyone with respect, but you are pissed at blacks. You think blacks don't pick up on that? Even subliminally?
What the fuck. Fuck you, I'm pissed at blacks. I mean it. Conversations with you always go a bit sideways because you're sloppy with your reasoning and your words. It's not the disagreement that's frustrating—although insinuating that I'm a fucking racist is certainly a new one on me—it's that half the time is spent not actually discussing anything, but explaining and clarifying shit to you that should be obvious.

Here's an example: No, I'm pissed at people who accuse me of things without proof, which includes white privilege advocates and, it appears, you too. But you're either too muddled to understand the difference between that and "blacks" or you're too impressed with how you think you're coming off to listen fully.

Take your "pissed at blacks" and shove it down your blabbering maw to save us from more of your addled nonsense.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Catseye
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Aqua Letifer
Sep 20 2016, 01:53 PM
Catseye
Sep 20 2016, 01:21 PM
You think your bias doesn't show? You make a point to treat everyone with respect, but you are pissed at blacks. You think blacks don't pick up on that? Even subliminally?
What the ****. **** you, I'm pissed at blacks. I mean it. Conversations with you always go a bit sideways because you're sloppy with your reasoning and your words. It's not the disagreement that's frustrating—although insinuating that I'm a ****ing racist is certainly a new one on me—it's that half the time is spent not actually discussing anything, but explaining and clarifying **** to you that should be obvious.

Here's an example: No, I'm pissed at people who accuse me of things without proof, which includes white privilege advocates and, it appears, you too. But you're either too muddled to understand the difference between that and "blacks" or you're too impressed with how you think you're coming off to listen fully.

Take your "pissed at blacks" and shove it down your blabbering maw to save us from more of your addled nonsense.
Drop dead.

I was addressing that to Mik, not to you.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
I've read the posts by Catseye as well as Aqua.

Frankly, I don't know where either of you stand, it's very confusing.

No wonder you seem to talk past each other.

But, I feel privileged to be here, to be able to read, and remain confused.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Catseye
Sep 20 2016, 01:55 PM
Aqua Letifer
Sep 20 2016, 01:53 PM
Catseye
Sep 20 2016, 01:21 PM
you are pissed
What the ****. **** you, . I mean it. insinuating that I'm a ****ing racist
**** to you that should be obvious.

shove it down your blabbering maw
addled nonsense.
Drop dead.

Yes, this was Clinton's goal. This is one thing democrats are good at.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Catseye
Sep 20 2016, 01:55 PM
Drop dead.

I was addressing that to Mik, not to you.
That's my bad then. (I don't think Mik's pissed at blacks either but I'll let him speak for himself.)

I have two first cousins who are black—my uncle's from Zimbabwe—and one of them gets a real hard time from a lot of family members. Those conversations sometimes get racial when they shouldn't and I get real bent out of shape about that. Most of the above was fueled by bad personal experience and was way too harsh.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Nobody's Sock
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I take people one at a time. I have black friends who I would trust my life with. But with that said, there are too many of them to shake a stick at that I would love to see drop dead. Some of them are the worst of humanity. Plenty of proof all over the media. Get on LiveLeak.com and watch numerous videos of them in action. Or heck, see it for yourselves in your own community. Those thugs are vile and give their whole race a bad name. They want racism to end, they need to look in the mirror first.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Aqua Letifer
Sep 20 2016, 01:53 PM
Catseye
Sep 20 2016, 01:21 PM
You think your bias doesn't show? You make a point to treat everyone with respect, but you are pissed at blacks. You think blacks don't pick up on that? Even subliminally?
Since this was aimed at me, I will address it although I believe it has been removed.

No, I am not pissed at individuals. I treat everyone I meet as well as I can and if I do not it is because of their own behavior in the transaction. No, I do not believe blacks pick up on that. I believe it is their own prejudice that leads themn to see it where it does not exist.

Am I pissed at blacks as a group? Sure I am. I get tired of being called a racist by virtue of my skin color. As Aqua said, we already have a term for that. But that does not affect how I treat individuals. The whole problem comes not when we meet each other as individuals but when we group up.



Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Catseye
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Mikhailoh
Sep 20 2016, 03:34 PM
Aqua Letifer
Sep 20 2016, 01:53 PM
Catseye
Sep 20 2016, 01:21 PM
You think your bias doesn't show? You make a point to treat everyone with respect, but you are pissed at blacks. You think blacks don't pick up on that? Even subliminally?
Since this was aimed at me, I will address it although I believe it has been removed.

No, I am not pissed at individuals. I treat everyone I meet as well as I can and if I do not it is because of their own behavior in the transaction.

Am I pissed at blacks as a group? Sure I am. I get tired of being called a racist by virtue of my skin color. As Aqua said, we already have a term for that. But that does not affect how I treat individuals.

I understand. You said it best a few days ago. Can't remember quite; it was something like, we must live up to the best within ourselves. Treating everyone you meet as well as you can may be as good as it gets for all of us. :blueunsure:
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Gordon Shumway
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