Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3
Trump’s maternity leave plan is unconstitutional
Topic Started: Sep 18 2016, 04:47 AM (1,008 Views)
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
Discriminates against men....

Quote:
 
Donald Trump recently made headlines by announcing a plan to give new mothers six weeks of paid maternity leave. Government-mandated family leave benefits are likely to hurt female workers more than they help them because they limit their choices and make it more costly for employers to hire women of childbearing age, thereby incentivizing businesses to hire fewer of them. This is true even if the benefit is paid for by the taxpayers rather than employers, since the latter will still bear the cost of having workers absent for a number of weeks. Some critics also claim the plan is based on sexist assumptions. But it has an even more basic flaw: under longstanding Supreme Court precedent, it is unconstitutional.

The maternity benefit will only be available to women with children, not men. Trump’s own website states that the proposed benefit is for “new mothers,” without mentioning fathers. Since the 1976 case of Craig v. Boren, the Supreme Court has ruled that laws that discriminate on the basis of sex are presumptively unconstitutional. They will only be upheld if they are “substantially related” to an “important state interest.” In more recent cases, the Court has made clear that this “intermediate scrutiny” is very rigorous, and that rough statistical generalizations – such as claims that women, on average, need parental leave more than men do – are not enough to satisfy the standard. Discriminatory laws cannot be based on “fixed notions concerning the roles and abilities of males and females,” even if those notions have some statistical support.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Catseye
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Did you see this Comment?

"This entire debate is up in the air because of the federal and state recognition of self-identification regarding gender. What's to stop a dad from declaring he identifies as a woman, and thus qualifies for leave? Or a woman who identifies as a man for various reasons, and then switches back for purposes of leave?"

:lol2:
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
Catseye
Sep 18 2016, 04:56 AM
Did you see this Comment?

"This entire debate is up in the air because of the federal and state recognition of self-identification regarding gender. What's to stop a dad from declaring he identifies as a woman, and thus qualifies for leave? Or a woman who identifies as a man for various reasons, and then switches back for purposes of leave?"

:lol2:
No, I didn't.

I've considered identifying as a woman on my last day of work, and using the ladies' locker room.

What're they going to do, fire me?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Catseye
Sep 18 2016, 04:56 AM
Did you see this Comment?

"This entire debate is up in the air because of the federal and state recognition of self-identification regarding gender. What's to stop a dad from declaring he identifies as a woman, and thus qualifies for leave? Or a woman who identifies as a man for various reasons, and then switches back for purposes of leave?"

:lol2:
Not a problem if the leave plan is not gender-specific to begin with.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
George K
Member Avatar
Finally
Axtremus
Sep 18 2016, 05:11 AM
Not a problem if the leave plan is not gender-specific to begin with.
Interesting point.

Somin's criticism is that Trump's plan allows for mothers to get paid leave.

Can a person with a set of XY chromosomes identify as a "mother"?

I know some people who would qualify on at least the part of the "mother....." designation.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Axtremus
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Sep 18 2016, 05:14 AM
Somin's criticism is that Trump's plan allows for mothers to get paid leave.
The Constitutional problem is that the plan allows only mothers to get paid leave.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Riley
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Does the US not have maternity leave?????? :confused:

We have paid maternity leave (not sure how long) for the person who gave birth to the baby, and paid parental leave (one year) that can be used by either parent.

Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Catseye
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
What difference does any of this make? He won't be elected, and if he is, this will be the last thing he'll be worried about.

The article Horace posted yesterday talks about false equivalence -- I think a very important thing to keep in mind. We've all been treating the Trump candidacy like it's legitimate and uninsane. Time to stop. Like the writer said, It's time to bark loudly that Trump is not normal.

So piddling around with maternal leave might qualify as the very quintessence of time wasting.


Edited by Catseye, Sep 18 2016, 05:59 AM.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
If women stayed in the kitchen where they belong this wouldn't be an issue to start with.......
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Somebody needs a sandwich...
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
:D
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
Sammich. It's sammich....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Copper
Member Avatar
Shortstop
Riley
Sep 18 2016, 05:53 AM
Does the US not have maternity leave?????? :confused:


No, the US has freedom.

Most large companies offer some form of maternity leave. I saw a story the other day about a company (I think Google) that offers up to 6 months leave for mothers and fathers. And they were thinking about offering leave for many other family needs including taking care of older parents.

The federal government has no business even thinking about this kind of legislation.

Maybe, and this is a big MAYBE, they could think about it if they were somehow be capable of due diligence on the topic. But that is absolutely impossible, this proposal only has about 3 seconds of thought and is meant to buy votes.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mikhailoh
Member Avatar
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Larry
Sep 18 2016, 06:08 AM
Sammich. It's sammich....
I never knew you were from Pittsburgh! :lol2:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Riley
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
So a Google employee in the US gets half of what a McDonalds cashier would get in Canada?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Catseye
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Larry
Sep 18 2016, 06:04 AM
If women stayed in the kitchen where they belong this wouldn't be an issue to start with.......


Puh. That the best you got?

Welcome to 2016. Tell us, how are things back there in the 1970s?


(Not for nuthin, I just started Muriel Siebert's book, Breaking the Rules. Muriel Siebert was the first woman to buy a seat on the NYSE. It cost $445,000 in the mid-60s, and she could afford it.)
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
McDonalds in Canada gives 12 months maternity leave???
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Copper
Member Avatar
Shortstop
Riley
Sep 18 2016, 06:15 AM
So a Google employee in the US gets half of what a McDonalds cashier would get in Canada?

Actually it looks like Google is 18 weeks.

What a scam!

I really hated maternity leave when I was working. Why should we be forced to pay someone who isn't working and has no intention of ever coming back to work?

My wife took maternity leave and got paid for several months without doing any work. I liked the money but thought it was totally undeserved, it was embarrassing. And of course she quit when the leave ran out.

This is a reason to not hire women - because they take the leave and quit.

As a recipient of the money I thought it was great and of course I thought it was a lot more important for my wife to raise our daughter than to go to work.

And yes, I understand that the proper response to someone saying what I just said is to shout them down and call them a hater. But the fact remains that maternity leave is generally unfair and doesn't make sense in many cases.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Horace
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
As a pregnant man, I think I can speak to this issue.

As a man, I was hired due to the fact that I have a penis, and I grow facial hair.

As a pregnant person, I understand that pushing a baby's head through my urethra will hurt.

But a lot of people never understand what it is to create life, and introduce it to the world. I have that, as a pregnant man. Not everybody does.

So my sacrifices are worthy. And if society has to pay for that, it is ok too. Because my pain ultimately matters. To the world.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Renauda
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Sep 18 2016, 06:11 AM
Riley
Sep 18 2016, 05:53 AM
Does the US not have maternity leave?????? :confused:


No, the US has freedom.

I hope that was just a whoopee cushion you sat on when you wrote that.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Riley
Member Avatar
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Sep 18 2016, 06:20 AM
McDonalds in Canada gives 12 months maternity leave???
Actually looks like the gov mandated minimum is 35 weeks. Though my workplace gives 52. McD would probably be the minimum of 35.

EI (unemployment) covers 50% of your wages for 35 weeks, I guess if your workplaces allows longer it is paid through your employee benefits plan.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
(Not for nuthin, I just started Muriel Siebert's book, Breaking the Rules. Muriel Siebert was the first woman to buy a seat on the NYSE. It cost $445,000 in the mid-60s, and she could afford it.)


Actually, she had to borrow the money, and she had to get a man to sign papers as her sponsor into the exchange...... and a man to sign the bank note...... :D

She should have stayed home and made sammiches.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Larry
Member Avatar
Mmmmmmm, pie!
Riley
Sep 18 2016, 11:32 AM
Larry
Sep 18 2016, 06:20 AM
McDonalds in Canada gives 12 months maternity leave???
Actually looks like the gov mandated minimum is 35 weeks. Though my workplace gives 52. McD would probably be the minimum of 35.

EI (unemployment) covers 50% of your wages for 35 weeks, I guess if your workplaces allows longer it is paid through your employee benefits plan.
Then every woman on earth should move to Canada, get a job at McDonalds, and have a baby every year..... lol
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Catseye
Member Avatar
Pisa-Carp
Larry
Sep 18 2016, 12:12 PM
Quote:
 
(Not for nuthin, I just started Muriel Siebert's book, Breaking the Rules. Muriel Siebert was the first woman to buy a seat on the NYSE. It cost $445,000 in the mid-60s, and she could afford it.)


Actually, she had to borrow the money, and she had to get a man to sign papers as her sponsor into the exchange...... and a man to sign the bank note...... :D

She should have stayed home and made sammiches.

I'm not sure, but I think every applicant had to have others sign for them, not just her. And 'afford it' doesn't necessarily mean she had the money in her cookie jar. And if she only qualified for a hearing, she'd still have been far above the cook-and-bottle-washer stage.

"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Copper
Member Avatar
Shortstop
Renauda
Sep 18 2016, 11:04 AM
Copper
Sep 18 2016, 06:11 AM
Riley
Sep 18 2016, 05:53 AM
Does the US not have maternity leave?????? :confused:


No, the US has freedom.

I hope that was just a whoopee cushion you sat on when you wrote that.
Go have a baby and make the taxpayers pay for it because you are too lame to get a job and pull your own weight.


The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3