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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 17 2016, 05:03 AM (89 Views) | |
| Catseye | Sep 17 2016, 05:03 AM Post #1 |
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Pisa-Carp
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. . . and I just didn't see it? The following is cobbled together from here and there. I didn't list the cites, and please don't ask me for them because . . . I just don't want to fool with 'em. You can trust me. Vice President Joe Biden announced in August a $2.45 billion loan to Amtrak from the Department of Transportation, the largest loan in the department's history. The $2.45 billion will be used to purchase 28 new train sets for the high-speed Acela train between Washington through New York and into Boston. The money will also be used to rehabilitate railroad tracks and upgrade four stations, including Washington's Union Station and Baltimore's Penn Station. The 28 slick new train sets -- arriving in 2021 at the cost of a cool $2 billion -- will increase passenger seating by a third, improve food options, and speed up on-board WiFi. They'll be able to travel at 186 mph (today's Acela hits 150 mph, while Japan's standard bullet trains go 200 mph), even though current regulations prevent trains on this stretch of track from going above 160 mph. How did Amtrak get into this mess? For one, the system is for-profit -- it's theoretically supposed to pay for itself, but has been losing money since it was founded during the Nixon administration. "This is a public service," Andy Kunz, president of US High Speed Rail Association, told National Journal last year. "Our highways don't make a profit. Our airports don't make a profit. It's all paid for by the government." Amtrak is funding the train sets and infrastructure improvements through the Federal Railroad Administration's Railroad Rehabilitation & Improvement Financing program that will be repaid through growth in Northeast Corridor revenues, Amtrak has said. Amtrak is already heavily subsidized by the federal government. The system's 2015 adjusted operating loss was $306.5 million, the most recent year for which data is available. Under conditions of the agreement with the Transportation Department, the passenger railroad will have 29 years to pay back the money, with repayment beginning no later than 2022. (By which time the default will go unnoticed by even those few citizens who knew about it in the first place. See how it works?) So . . . the system has been losing money since the '60s? Lost over $300 million last year? Gonna repay the loan through 'growth in revenues'? Maybe throw in the Brooklyn Bridge, which incidentally is for sale.) The impression I get from the few websites I redd is that the rail system is needed, but can't be run at a profit -- or even a break-even. So is it that people are willing to pay $X for a train ticket, but would sit in daily gridlock in their cars rather than pay a price that would support the rail? This is not me being sarky, which I never am anyway, but because I really don't know. Is it that we need the trains in order to prevent the East Coast from locking up altogether, but it is being impossible to create a workable for-profit operation? That's a sticky one, eh? Still, it takes some cohones to announce that enormous a Okay, that is me being sarky. Uncharacteristically. [Edited to Add: I just searched three pages of Google URLs with nary a mention of Obama, aside from identifying Biden as 'Obama's running mate/vice president'. Sounds like this was strictly Biden's baby. I get a mental picture of Obama backing away hastily, hands raised, "Get that thing away from me" . . . ] Side for George: Here's a related video on the inside of the Siemens train factory. Scroll down to the end of the (short) story. I thought you'd find it interesting, Train Boy. https://www.wired.com/2016/08/feds-just-gave-amtrak-2-4-billion-needs-money/ Edited by Catseye, Sep 17 2016, 05:15 AM.
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| "How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex | |
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| Mikhailoh | Sep 17 2016, 05:15 AM Post #2 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Snarky. You're not being sarky, you're being snarky. OK, now that that is out of the way, I really do not have a problem with Amtrak being subsidized. I do not know the extent. It may be that the increased passenger capacity may increase use. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| George K | Sep 17 2016, 05:20 AM Post #3 |
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Finally
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Couple of comments: 1) No railroad has ever made a profit providing passenger service. That's the reason Amtrak was created in 1971. All the First Class Railroads were hemorrhaging money and were, one by one, discontinuing the service in order to focus on where the money is - freight. 2) Because of #1, the mandate to be profitable was a fool's errand from the inception of the system. 3) All that said, Amtrak does turn a profit on certain areas - the Northeast Corridor between Washington and Boston. Why is that, you ask? Because Amtrak owns the rails and right-of-way there and has no impediment from competing (freight) trains which own the rails in other areas. These new transets are designated for the NEC. 4) The government subsidizes all forms of transportation. Who maintains the interstates and other roads? You do. Who pays for airport expansions, control tower building and staffing of staff at the airports? You do. The article points that out. I often wonder what the subsidy, per-passenger-mile, is for alternate forms of transportation. 5) When it's good, it's VERY good. Amtrak's NEC trains (both the "regular speed" and the Acela) transport people from DC to Boston faster (downtown to downtown) and frequently cheaper than airlines. 6) There are many places in the country that are just not accessible other than by rail, without ridiculous costs. A flight to Havre Montana from Chicago is $650. Amtrak Coach is $160. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| John Galt | Sep 17 2016, 05:22 AM Post #4 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I read about it. Apparently the Acela has replaced plane travel in many cases, and the new equipment will allow an increase of about 40% in the number of passengers it can handle. Guess it also keeps cars off of I-95. It's probably one area of the country where putting some money into rail transportation makes sense. |
| Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness. | |
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| Catseye | Sep 17 2016, 05:22 AM Post #5 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Nix. Snarky = Cranky or irritable. I? Me? Moi? Sarky = Short for 'sarcastic'. The most interesting question for me comes from the quote from, I don't know, that guy, about how highways, airports and trains don't make a profit. Why is that so? Is it because not enough people can afford to pay the freight? Why is it more desirable to have that much infrastructure running at a loss than to cut back and have a smaller, profitable system? It wouldn't kill people to not flit about if they knew they couldn't afford it. And fuel prices and oil in all of that, too. This is one of the many things that confuse me about economics. |
| "How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex | |
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| Mikhailoh | Sep 17 2016, 05:29 AM Post #6 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Passenger rail is infrastructure, just like highways, etc. It will have a cost. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Larry | Sep 17 2016, 05:32 AM Post #7 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Anyone who thinks driving on the interstate is free has never had to put a big rig on the road..... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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