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Sexist 12 Year Olds
Topic Started: Sep 14 2016, 12:58 PM (682 Views)
Copper
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Shortstop
John D'Oh
Sep 15 2016, 01:04 PM
You'd prefer they get their instruction from somebody sworn to a lifetime of celibacy?

Sure, that works for me.

Except if she is running for president.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
TomK
Sep 15 2016, 01:28 PM
... we keep sex ed a science and leave the value judgments to the parents.
That's what I used to tell ivorythumper, and I still think largely that's still the right approach for contemporary America.

Obviously there are corner cases such as kids without parents, kids with legally insane parents, and kids with amoral/unethical parents, kids whose parents have their own psychosexual problems, etc. These poor, poor kids just have to figure that "value judgement" stuff out on their own.

D'Oh's point on teaching "love" and "respect" is well-intentioned, but I think I can live with being a lot LESS ambitious and just limit the schools to teaching the legal aspects of "consent."

So ... what's in school curriculum? The science and mechanics of sex, including the aspects of birth control and disease prevention*, and the legal aspects of what constitute "consent" when sex is concerned.

* Now this may be implicit understood for some of you, but may also be a mental block or intentional blind-spot for some of you, so I'm going to spell this out for you: When it comes to the "disease prevention" aspect of sex, "anal sex" should be explicitly addressed because (1) it's higher risk and (2) there is high enough probability of the students eventually doing it at some points in their lives regardless of their gender and sexual orientation.

Fair enough?
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
F*cking biomachines.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Sep 15 2016, 02:10 PM
TomK
Sep 15 2016, 01:28 PM
... we keep sex ed a science and leave the value judgments to the parents.
That's what I used to tell ivorythumper, and I still think largely that's still the right approach for contemporary America.

Obviously there are corner cases such as kids without parents, kids with legally insane parents, and kids with amoral/unethical parents, kids whose parents have their own psychosexual problems, etc. These poor, poor kids just have to figure that "value judgement" stuff out on their own.

D'Oh's point on teaching "love" and "respect" is well-intentioned, but I think I can live with being a lot LESS ambitious and just limit the schools to teaching the legal aspects of "consent."

So ... what's in school curriculum? The science and mechanics of sex, including the aspects of birth control and disease prevention*, and the legal aspects of what constitute "consent" when sex is concerned.

* Now this may be implicit understood for some of you, but may also be a mental block or intentional blind-spot for some of you, so I'm going to spell this out for you: When it comes to the "disease prevention" aspect of sex, "anal sex" should be explicitly addressed because (1) it's higher risk and (2) there is high enough probability of the students eventually doing it at some points in their lives regardless of their gender and sexual orientation.

Fair enough?
I think that was spot on. You can't teach "love." You should teach kids the basics and then they just have to pick up the details from people around them.

I would imagine kids with two loving parents would do better than those that don't but dems are da breaks. Everybody isn't born the same, with money or in love.
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Sep 15 2016, 03:35 PM
F*cking biomachines.
You need to watch "Looking For Mr. Goodbar."
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kathyk
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TomK
Sep 15 2016, 12:50 PM
John D'Oh
Sep 15 2016, 12:39 PM
Friday
Sep 15 2016, 11:18 AM
John D'Oh
Sep 15 2016, 03:30 AM
Mikhailoh
Sep 15 2016, 02:20 AM
Schools should not be teaching anything but the clinical aspects.
Seriously?

Is that what you think, or what they think?
It's what a lot of people think.

Are kids so clueless that they need to be taught physical pleasure and desire?

That's not what I meant. There's more to having a happy sex life than the mechanics. There's the matter of respecting the other person, and being in a loving relationship etc. etc. The stuff a decent parent would be teaching, but frequently isn't.

Learning about sex by just reading about the mechanics is like learning history by memorising a bunch of dates.
And who exactly is supposed to teach how to have a long happy loving relationship to your kids? Some girl that just got her BS in Education from the local state U reading out of some book by some random psychologist?
No, Doh is onto something. The easy - no, rampant - availability of porn online has really infected the notion of sexuality amongst young people - particularly boys. I just watched a film last night called Sexy Baby. It's a documentary that focuses on three women, all of whom portray really disturbing stories of how porn has shaped their lives and their own senses of their sexuality - from the 20-something whose biggest dream in life was to get a labiaplasty to make herself feel like a complete and beautiful woman, to the porn star/pole dancer champ who couldn't criticize porn but said that children should just "slow down", to the precocious New York teen who was so addicted to Social Media that during a time-out period imposed by her parents was panting about how she "needed" to hook up and just want to put her tongue in someone's mouth. Needless to say, it was disturbing.

I also recall the stories my daughter told of a friend of hers who (ironically) went off to Catholic school and was the butt of jokes when an ex-boyfriend gleefully spread the fact that she was gross, because she had a bush. A bush?!?? That was about the time I learned that all adolescent girls had started shaving their nether regions. What the F?! Why else could this be but because of the proliferation of porn. It is so perniciously out there and accessible and the images have created this crazy notion of what sex should be like and what the ideal female body should look like.

The porn star in Sexy Babies had some interesting perspectives on this. She herself had "discovered" that the kind of sex portrayed in porn is "sport sex" and she went on to say that most of the stuff portrayed in porn is not gratifying to the actors. It's all about appealing to the audience. When she finally found a steady relationship, she for the first time in her life understood that gratifying sex (i.e. when there's love) is a completely different. She wasn't able to completely disavow the profession in which she found recognition, but there was clearly a gaping cognitive dissonance in her narrative.

Anyway - yeah. Times have profoundly changed and people with young kids should be steadily monitoring and openly talking to their kids about this stuff, because otherwise, they're going to be totally at sea as to what constitutes healthy relationships and sexuality.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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You can't teach "love."


Sure you can.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Quote:
 
Anyway - yeah. Times have profoundly changed and people with young kids should be steadily monitoring and openly talking to their kids about this stuff, because otherwise, they're going to be totally at sea as to what constitutes healthy relationships and sexuality.


And we can thank liberalism 100% for this.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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kathyk
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Yes, better to bury our heads under the sand. Make America great again, i.e. bring back slavery, women as chattels and yes - obliterate all those GD native, Godless savages who claim a stake to the land. White Anglo men rule!!!
Edited by kathyk, Sep 15 2016, 06:44 PM.
Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
You're just as f*cking stupid as you've always been, Kathy.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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George K
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Finally
kathyk
Sep 15 2016, 06:44 PM
Yes, better to bury our heads under the sand. Make America great again, i.e. bring back slavery, women as chattels and yes - obliterate all those GD native, Godless savages who claim a stake to the land. White Anglo men rule!!!
If you can point to specific places where "Make America great again" Trump endorses the restoration of slavery, surpassing women's rights, and genocide, I'll ignore that post.

Maybe.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
If the woman had enough sense to understand anything, I'd take the time to explain it to her.

But she doesn't, so explaining something to her is like trying to teach a pig to sing.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Catseye
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George K
Sep 15 2016, 06:51 PM
kathyk
Sep 15 2016, 06:44 PM
Yes, better to bury our heads under the sand. Make America great again, i.e. bring back slavery, women as chattels and yes - obliterate all those GD native, Godless savages who claim a stake to the land. White Anglo men rule!!!
If you can point to specific places where "Make America great again" Trump endorses the restoration of slavery, surpassing women's rights, and genocide, I'll ignore that post.

Maybe.


George, I think Trump implies a lot of that in his behavior and/or his remarks. I couldn't point to this occasion or that set of remarks because sucky memory, but the impression one is left with, with Trump, is just what kathyk says. Reading between the lines.

Well, maybe not obliterate in the literal sense, like mowing them down with bullets, but obliterate meaning 'get rid of' by deportation or refusal to permit entry.

She may have overstated a teeny bit. :biggrin:

Edited by Catseye, Sep 16 2016, 01:41 AM.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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George K
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Finally
Bill Clinton promised to make America great again as well.

No one batted an eye.

Here's one: https://www.c-span.org/video/standalone/?c4600782/bill-clinton-make-america-great&popoutPlayer

And more recently, while stumping for Hillary in 2008: https://www.c-span.org/video/?32698-1/clinton-campaign-speech

There are no lines to read in between which there, I assume.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
TomK
Sep 15 2016, 05:53 PM
You can't teach "love."
Well, that's 2000 years of religious teaching wasted.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
George K
Sep 16 2016, 02:39 AM
Bill Clinton promised to make America great again as well.

No one batted an eye.

Here's one: https://www.c-span.org/video/standalone/?c4600782/bill-clinton-make-america-great&popoutPlayer

And more recently, while stumping for Hillary in 2008: https://www.c-span.org/video/?32698-1/clinton-campaign-speech

There are no lines to read in between which there, I assume.
Don't think the second link is what you intended to post, it's from 1992, not 2008.

Nonetheless, taken together, Bill Clinton talked about making America great again with hope and change, not with xenophobia as Donald Trump has been doing.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
It should be possible to have what could have been a pretty interesting discussion without it devolving into boringly predictable attacks on liberalism and yet another boring discussion of your stupid election.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Ms. Jones, sex ed teacher at Podunk High, moonlights to make ends meet.

Posted Image
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Axtremus
Sep 16 2016, 03:36 AM
George K
Sep 16 2016, 02:39 AM
Bill Clinton promised to make America great again as well.

No one batted an eye.

Here's one: https://www.c-span.org/video/standalone/?c4600782/bill-clinton-make-america-great&popoutPlayer

And more recently, while stumping for Hillary in 2008: https://www.c-span.org/video/?32698-1/clinton-campaign-speech

There are no lines to read in between which there, I assume.
Don't think the second link is what you intended to post, it's from 1992, not 2008.

Nonetheless, taken together, Bill Clinton talked about making America great again with hope and change, not with xenophobia as Donald Trump has been doing.
Same theme, correct?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Catseye
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John D'Oh
Sep 16 2016, 03:43 AM
It should be possible to have what could have been a pretty interesting discussion without it devolving into boringly predictable attacks on liberalism and yet another boring discussion of your stupid election.

Dreamer.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Imagine there's no Facebook,
It's easy if you try
No FiOs below us,
Above us only Sky...
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Sep 16 2016, 03:50 AM
Imagine there's no Facebook,
It's easy if you try
No FiOs below us,
Above us only Skype...
FIFY.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
'Sky TV' is a satellite provider, so they're above us.

You f*cked up my poem, man.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
kathyk
Sep 15 2016, 06:16 PM
No, Doh is onto something. The easy - no, rampant - availability of porn online has really infected the notion of sexuality amongst young people - particularly boys. I just watched a film last night called Sexy Baby. It's a documentary that focuses on three women, all of whom portray really disturbing stories of how porn has shaped their lives and their own senses of their sexuality - from the 20-something whose biggest dream in life was to get a labiaplasty to make herself feel like a complete and beautiful woman, to the porn star/pole dancer champ who couldn't criticize porn but said that children should just "slow down", to the precocious New York teen who was so addicted to Social Media that during a time-out period imposed by her parents was panting about how she "needed" to hook up and just want to put her tongue in someone's mouth. Needless to say, it was disturbing.

There are always going to be people that go to extremes in sex, drugs or anything else, and those are the cases you cited. But we can't set all education standards to cater to these people. There is a place for education from schools, but everything in a child's life can't be the province of government socialization. Little by little the schools are trying to take the place of the family and the church and create a homogeneous country of some psychologist's and sociologist's making and that runs against the grain.

Quote:
 
I also recall the stories my daughter told of a friend of hers who (ironically) went off to Catholic school and was the butt of jokes when an ex-boyfriend gleefully spread the fact that she was gross, because she had a bush. A bush?!?? That was about the time I learned that all adolescent girls had started shaving their nether regions. What the F?! Why else could this be but because of the proliferation of porn. It is so perniciously out there and accessible and the images have created this crazy notion of what sex should be like and what the ideal female body should look like.


You have the wrong lesson learned from the story above. The girl--shouldn't have show her private areas to the boy in question (bushy or not.) She made a bad decision and sometimes you have to pay for making a wrong decision. It's a good life lesson for her. It's a hard lesson, but that's life--and hopefully that girl learned and will move on. As to your point about porn--I imagine there is a whole world of people that associate porn with sex, but there are a whole world of people that don't. It's best to choose wisely with whom you associate with. Again, choices not forced socialization. We as a society have chosen to let porn be a cultural force in our overall society so the only antidote for that is private restraint in the same way we do with drugs or alcohol.

Quote:
 
The porn star in Sexy Babies had some interesting perspectives on this. She herself had "discovered" that the kind of sex portrayed in porn is "sport sex" and she went on to say that most of the stuff portrayed in porn is not gratifying to the actors. It's all about appealing to the audience. When she finally found a steady relationship, she for the first time in her life understood that gratifying sex (i.e. when there's love) is a completely different. She wasn't able to completely disavow the profession in which she found recognition, but there was clearly a gaping cognitive dissonance in her narrative.


Meh, the woman clearly has other problems than just sex, but anyway, I don't think and really don't want schools to teach anything so personal as how to fall in love or who to have sex with. That's a parent's job and true there are parents that don't do their jobs well, but schools shouldn't teach to the worst case social scenarios in the same way they don't gear themselves to kids that can't add two and two. Maybe there should be a class for people that come dysfunctional families--but it shouldn't be the norm.

Quote:
 
Anyway - yeah. Times have profoundly changed and people with young kids should be steadily monitoring and openly talking to their kids about this stuff, because otherwise, they're going to be totally at sea as to what constitutes healthy relationships and sexuality.
I have no problem with that. But given the opportunity schools will and do push social agendas that may not be agreeable to a lot of people. For the same reason that we don't allow religious indoctrination in our public schools--we shouldn't let liberal agendas be part of the curriculum either.

Hi Kathy. :wave:

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Sep 16 2016, 05:27 AM
'Sky TV' is a satellite provider, so they're above us.

You f*cked up my poem, man.
OK, another revision then:

Imagine there's no Facebook,
It's easy if you Skype
No FiOs below us,
Above us only Sky ...
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