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The Automation Bomb
Topic Started: Aug 12 2016, 09:10 AM (1,665 Views)
jon-nyc
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Cheers
It's not the sex you're paying for. You're paying them to go home afterwards.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Somehow I knew you'd chime in at this point, Jon :lol2:
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Steve Miller
Aug 14 2016, 08:05 PM
Certainly freeing mankind from the drugery of mindless jobs is a good thing. The question is what will happen to the broad swath of the population who are capable of little else.
Historically, we've been pushed into middle management. I didn't even see it coming.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Sex as an industry drives a lot of technology.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a different tack altogether with "automated" sex, using only immersive technologies, but that's down the road a ways.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Aug 15 2016, 03:33 AM
Steve Miller
Aug 14 2016, 08:05 PM
Certainly freeing mankind from the drugery of mindless jobs is a good thing. The question is what will happen to the broad swath of the population who are capable of little else.
Historically, we've been pushed into middle management. I didn't even see it coming.
Posted Image
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Perfect.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
KlavierBauer
Aug 14 2016, 07:47 PM
Steve, I tend to agree but I don't see it necessarily as a bad thing.
Driverless cars and driverless trucks have already happened - and I believe it will take off as a necessity from a safety and efficiency standpoint, not to mention the ecological benefits.
Personally, I'm worried about how a driverless car or truck is going to perceive a cyclist. Like, if there's an accident situation and a bus has to decide in a fraction of a second how to maximize the preservation of life, I can totally see the programming be such that it chooses to mow down a cyclist to keep the bus riders more safe. Or something similar, depending entirely on how the programming works.

I worry about it, but at the same time, fewer drunks and oblivious drivers to take you out sounds good to me, too.

Quote:
 
It may be a bit of a Star Trek dream, but I don't think it's wrong for our goal as a species to be the abolition of *most* jobs, resulting in the emancipation of mankind.

It may all go downhill, but I tend to think we will continue to progress and find ways over the hurdles that will present themselves.


People thought that computers would do that for us, and they haven't. We still work the same hours—in fact, we work slightly more hours now—and if anything our overall health continues to go down as we become more sedentary. We have access to amazing amounts of information, and can get a hell of a lot of things done with computers, but have they really increased our quality of life? I don't think so. All they've done is added things.

I also don't think it's a sound conclusion the job loss results in emancipation. Of the folks I know who lost their jobs, extremely few of them would describe it as that.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Personally, I'm worried about how a driverless car or truck is going to perceive a cyclist. Like, if there's an accident situation and a bus has to decide in a fraction of a second how to maximize the preservation of life, I can totally see the programming be such that it chooses to mow down a cyclist to keep the bus riders more safe. Or something similar, depending entirely on how the programming works.

I worry about it, but at the same time, fewer drunks and oblivious drivers to take you out sounds good to me, too.


That is a really interesting point. I had not thought about that scene (or others like it).
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Klaus
Aug 15 2016, 06:27 AM
Posted Image
I'd laugh if about 6 years of my working life hadn't been ruined by somebody like this.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Aqua Letifer
Aug 15 2016, 06:41 AM
Personally, I'm worried about how a driverless car or truck is going to perceive a cyclist.
If we can shoot down enemy fighter aircraft at a range of 12nm, I doubt that cyclists are going to cause us too many problems.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
taiwan_girl
Aug 15 2016, 06:51 AM
Quote:
 
Personally, I'm worried about how a driverless car or truck is going to perceive a cyclist. Like, if there's an accident situation and a bus has to decide in a fraction of a second how to maximize the preservation of life, I can totally see the programming be such that it chooses to mow down a cyclist to keep the bus riders more safe. Or something similar, depending entirely on how the programming works.

I worry about it, but at the same time, fewer drunks and oblivious drivers to take you out sounds good to me, too.


That is a really interesting point. I had not thought about that scene (or others like it).
There are quite a few articles on the ethics of driverless cars.

You can try to apply some Utilitarian ethics to such programs, but the really interesting question is the conflict between the interest of the car owner, and the interest of the accident participants. What if the car has to decide whether its owner is likely to die, or two other people are likely to die? The owner does of course have an incentive to change the programming of his car such that the well-being of the owner is maximized. And if we assume that the owners of other cars participating in the accident do the same, we have jumped right into the middle of game theory issues and we need to look for some kind of Nash equilibrium.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
If people killed by driverless cars sue the manufactures then the manufacturers have an incentive to minimise casualties and hence adhere to utilitarian principles that do not put the lives of the passengers ahead of the lives of pedestrians. Guess that will be set against people's willingness to pay extra for vehicles that prioritise their passengers over everyone else.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
But it may very well be that cars develop into "open" software systems that you can extend with "apps" or replace by open-source alternatives.

But in any case, people will find legal or illegal ways to alter their software in such a way that it prioritizes their safety.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
I think the most difficult problem to solve is going to be car hacking.
Wag more
Bark less
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Hacking isn't typically the most difficult problem to solve, thanks to the tireless efforts of those in infosec to find and publish exploits.
Everything is exploitable, but all exploits are patchable.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
Klaus
Aug 15 2016, 08:34 AM
But it may very well be that cars develop into "open" software systems that you can extend with "apps" or replace by open-source alternatives.

But in any case, people will find legal or illegal ways to alter their software in such a way that it prioritizes their safety.
I would have thought it will be regulated like crazy, imagine the consequence of someone's homebrew app getting it wrong and ploughing into the opposite lane of a motorway. Plus the whole hacking risk, software for self driving vehicles will make ios look open.

And people who illegally modify their car software and get into accidents will get arrested.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Catseye
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Pisa-Carp
Quote:
 
. . . imagine the consequence of someone's homebrew app getting it wrong and ploughing into the opposite lane of a motorway.


Easy. And it's also easy to imagine the hoards who will emerge from the woodwork afterwards, claiming they knew all along what a crazy idea it was, and now look what's happened.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Moonbat
Aug 15 2016, 10:01 AM
Klaus
Aug 15 2016, 08:34 AM
But it may very well be that cars develop into "open" software systems that you can extend with "apps" or replace by open-source alternatives.

But in any case, people will find legal or illegal ways to alter their software in such a way that it prioritizes their safety.
I would have thought it will be regulated like crazy, imagine the consequence of someone's homebrew app getting it wrong and ploughing into the opposite lane of a motorway. Plus the whole hacking risk, software for self driving vehicles will make ios look open.

And people who illegally modify their car software and get into accidents will get arrested.
Yes, I agree that governments will try to regulate the hell out of this.

But on the other hand, these are highly complicated software systems. This is not like a small engine control unit whose program can be flashed on some kind of sealed EPROM and stay untouched for the next 10 years. Rather, there will frequently be bugs, crashes, automatic updates via internet, and so forth.

If you consider how easy it is to "jailbreak"/"root" a modern cell phone, I'm pretty sure that people will find a way to hack into such a system, regardless of what the manufacturers do. The governments will threaten people with fines, jail, or whatnot, but I predict that it will not be effective.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
Aug 15 2016, 12:28 PM
Moonbat
Aug 15 2016, 10:01 AM
Klaus
Aug 15 2016, 08:34 AM
But it may very well be that cars develop into "open" software systems that you can extend with "apps" or replace by open-source alternatives.

But in any case, people will find legal or illegal ways to alter their software in such a way that it prioritizes their safety.
I would have thought it will be regulated like crazy, imagine the consequence of someone's homebrew app getting it wrong and ploughing into the opposite lane of a motorway. Plus the whole hacking risk, software for self driving vehicles will make ios look open.

And people who illegally modify their car software and get into accidents will get arrested.
Yes, I agree that governments will try to regulate the hell out of this.

But on the other hand, these are highly complicated software systems. This is not like a small engine control unit whose program can be flashed on some kind of sealed EPROM and stay untouched for the next 10 years. Rather, there will frequently be bugs, crashes, automatic updates via internet, and so forth.

If you consider how easy it is to "jailbreak"/"root" a modern cell phone, I'm pretty sure that people will find a way to hack into such a system, regardless of what the manufacturers do. The governments will threaten people with fines, jail, or whatnot, but I predict that it will not be effective.
Granted - but people can already hack their minds and severely impair their car's ability to drive safely.
Compare the number of folks as a % per-capita who are willing to rootkit their phone vs. the number who have 2-3 glasses of wine at dinner and drive home.

I think we're picking at edge cases here.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
But what you are missing in your argument is that the incentives are different.

Only geeks like me "root" their cell phone because there isn't much "everyday" stuff that "normal" people want to do that require a rooted phone.

But that equation changes dramatically if tweaking your auto pilot means that it may save your life, or that you get to work 5min faster.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Klaus
Aug 15 2016, 12:35 PM
But that equation changes dramatically if tweaking your auto pilot means that it may save your life, or that you get to work 5min faster.
And just like rooting your phone, there are going to be a team of geeks out there who create a rootkit equivalent to make the process easy for n00bs.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
To prevent any problems with insurance or fines for fiddling with the software in case of an accident, I predict that the rootkit will contain an option to "undo" the rooting and eliminate all traces a microsecond after an airbag was triggered.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Then, just like today, there will be the endless battle between software updates from the license-holders to eliminate the roots from working, and then updates from the rootkit community to work around the new updates, etc.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
I think it's a non-issue, personally.
No matter how noob-friendly you make a hack, it's still a hack, and outside of the DIYers and the Makers, few are willing to risk hacking something, at least with the public's current familiarity with technology.
When most of us first rooted our iphones several years back, it was to get free wifi-tethering, and avoid the $30/month upcharge from the carrier for sharing the data we were already paying for with our laptop. That presented a significant savings, and was widely published, and still, relatively few people opted to root their phones.
Then Federal courts ruled in the favor of users, letting manufacturers know that it wasn't illegal for users to hack/root devices they purchased and owned - and still, relatively few people did it.
Then rootkits came out far removed from the early cyanogenmod days, where the likelihood of bricking one's phone dropped to nearly-null, and still - relatively few rooted their phones.

As easy as it is (currently, rooting an iphone involves a 5 second download and a few mouse clicks), few choose to root their phones and smartly so. Installing your own bootloader also opens a few doors that you might not know how to close if you're unaware you opened them in the first place - and people have an innate sense that they're opening something when they root. Granted, people tend to think they're opening the Hellraiser cube when they're cracking the window a bit, but still. :)

My point is - unless there were *mass* vehicular homicides from autonomous vehicles making poor decisions, I don't think the incentive would be there for folks to commit a felony and install a rootkit or bootloader on their car - not to mention that they'd void the manufacturer's warranty. Most of us don't drink and drive because going to jail is enough incentive not to - I don't think a large number of every day drivers would jailbreak their autonomous cars to give themselves a +5% chance of surviving a wreck by taking out another car.

I think it's an interesting discussion, but I don't see widespread hacking of autonomous vehicles taking off with the obvious regulation that would surround said vehicles.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
It's hard to imagine our robot overlords driving more stupidly than those wankers I see texting every day on the way to work.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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