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| A question for the medical professionals; The best healthcare in the world | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 14 2016, 11:06 PM (987 Views) | |
| Steve Miller | Jul 14 2016, 11:06 PM Post #1 |
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Bull-Carp
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For about a year now, I've had pain in my left shoulder. Arthritis probably, I'm 61. Changing how I hold the steering wheel when I drive helped. It was not bad enough to take painkilers for - just part of getting old. Three weeks ago I fell and landed on that shoulder. Now I can't lift my arm past shoulder height, even on Aleve. I had hoped it would get better but if anything it's getting worse. I can't work much and I can hardly type. I've developed any number of workarounds but the best I can hope for at this point is limited use of my left arm. I've tested and and figured out I can get by without the Aleve but sleeping is difficult. Installing light fixtures is out of the question. I have insurance. - $ 2000 deductible. My wife thinks I should go to the doctor and have it checked out. I'm not sure it's worth that - the last time I went to the doctor for a physical he ordered lab tests that were't covered to the tune of $2000 on top Of the $ 2000 deductible. I can buy a good used pickup for that. I can see this running in to tens of $thousands between the deductible and the insurance company screwing around. I want to retire in 5 years. I can't afford this. So what to do? I can see spending $6K-$50K on MRIs and whatnot only to find that my best bet is to become an OxyContin addict. I don't expect the insurance company to cover any of it despite the $1K/month premium I pay on my wife's group plan. Blue Cross has been nothing but a source of disappointment in the past and I don't see any reason to expect them to honor their commitments now. So what am I looking at? Opioid addiction? Bankruptcy? Early retirement? Do I get on the medical system treadmill and watch my retirement savings evaporate? Learn to type with my right hand? Move to England? Jump off a bridge? Right now I think I should learn to live with it. My wife is incredulous - indeed furious- that I won't do the expected thing and spend every last dime we have to try and fix a problem that most likely has no cure. What would you do? |
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| bachophile | Jul 14 2016, 11:38 PM Post #2 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Honestly I can't really get my head around the health care situation in the states Practically u need an MRI and an orthopedist who specializes in shoulders. May be a surgical solution. NSAIDS and opiates are not a solution. Just a temporizng measure. Edited by bachophile, Jul 14 2016, 11:41 PM.
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| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Klaus | Jul 14 2016, 11:48 PM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Wow, the American healthcare system is really foul. Over here people would march on the streets if such a treatment would cost them a single dollar extra. I'm not a medical professional (or any other kind of professional, for that matter ) but that has never stopped me to say something anyway ![]() With regard to your situation, I think there is a middle ground. There's diagnosis and there's treatment. Right now you know nothing |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Steve Miller | Jul 14 2016, 11:50 PM Post #4 |
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Bull-Carp
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If I fight with my insurance company long enough I may be able to get them to pay for an orthopedist. I risk my house to to do that but it may be worth it to get 10 more years out of my shoulder. What would you say is the likelihood that an orthopedist could do something equal to the value of my retirement savings ? Edited by Steve Miller, Jul 14 2016, 11:51 PM.
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| Rainman | Jul 14 2016, 11:53 PM Post #5 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Sorry to hear about this, Steve. I hope this thread doesn't morph into a "health care suxor" which it easily could. It gets expensive like you mentioned, real quick. I've been there, with my back issues over the years. The only perspective I can contribute is, that if you don't do anything and this goes on for a long time, you may turn into the worlds biggest grump, and your wife and family may find you hard to be around. Pain, over time, can change an otherwise sunny disposition, change your personality just because you are in constant, chronic pain (family and friends learned to stay away from me). If that's a possibility, it may be worth the $$$ not only for your own well-being, but for your loved-ones as well. Frankly, in my completely medically ignorant perspective: you have no choice. Go get it looked at. |
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| Steve Miller | Jul 15 2016, 12:16 AM Post #6 |
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Bull-Carp
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Well, healthcare here definitely sucks, there no doubt about that. $12 K per year in insurance premiums doesn't mean sh!it and that's a fact. That's just for me BTW, my wife's employer pays her part of the premium. The hell of it is that you can generally expect the insurance company (Blue Cross) to deny all or part of any claim you submit. The cost of a lawyer to litigate any claim that is denied exceeds what a working man makes in 10 years so you're pretty much stuck. Meantime I can't use my arm and I'm stuck considering how old my parents were when they died and how much a few years of using my arm is worth. |
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| Steve Miller | Jul 15 2016, 12:21 AM Post #7 |
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Bull-Carp
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Maybe it's worth a couple $Thou for a diagnosis, on top of whatever Blue Cross denies. Seems like a reasonable middle ground . |
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| Steve Miller | Jul 15 2016, 12:30 AM Post #8 |
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Bull-Carp
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The big question is, knowing what you know, is there a chance that medical professionals can fix my shoulder or should I just learn to live with it? I can see the opioid solution - I dont want that. I can see 20 years of PT and I don't want that either. Surgery maybe, but at what cost? $100K? $250K? More? What else is there? Edit: My wife thinks Blue Cross will pay at least part of what ever it costs because we have been good about paying the premiums . I'm skeptical but it might be worth a call to the doctor to see what he thinks. Maybe I can convince him to prescribe only what Blue Cross will cover. It won't be much but it may be better than nothing. I am willing to wait the two weeks it takes to get a response from him. Maybe the problem will go away. Edited by Steve Miller, Jul 15 2016, 12:48 AM.
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| Friday | Jul 15 2016, 12:45 AM Post #9 |
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Senior Carp
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Yes, there is a good chance you can get your shoulder repaired. It may mean surgery, or a series of injections, or just physical therapy. But you won't know unless you have it looked at. Find a good doctor. 61 is too young to just live with it. It really sucks about your insurance. |
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| Steve Miller | Jul 15 2016, 12:50 AM Post #10 |
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Bull-Carp
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Is your insurance any different? |
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| Friday | Jul 15 2016, 01:06 AM Post #11 |
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Senior Carp
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Yes, my husband has really good insurance, Blue Cross of North Carolina. He's had shoulder issues and had to have injections with therapy. I think we only paid a few hundred dollars, if that. |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 15 2016, 01:07 AM Post #12 |
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Cheers
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I am not a physician and don't even play one on the Internet. But I do own two shoulders so I can at least share my own experience. I had very bad shoulder pain and limited mobility for months or maybe even a year. Also, since it hurt to move it certain ways, I moved it less and the mobility actually decreased over time. This was contrary to my expectations - I thought if I was easy on it it would heal. No dice. In my case the answer was PT. But most of the healing process was me doing exercises (painful ones, by the way) several times a day. It healed completely in a few months. I guess the point is not all shoulder problems are $$$. Get the diagnosis. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Nobody's Sock | Jul 15 2016, 01:15 AM Post #13 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I have an employer contributed HMO and yes , it is much different. I pay about $250 per month. For a joint issue, and I've had 12 surgeries for a knee, shoulder and elbow, I'm looking at a $200 copay for the mri that will be ordered, and another $200 copay for the outpatient surgery. Everything else is covered. Steve, regardless of your out of pocket cost for this, there is a quality of life issue at stake here. Rainman is right. You need to get a correct diagnosis and then make your decision. Odds are that a surgery will greatly benefit you even if you are arthritic. But I totally hear you and commiserate with regards to your insurance. I would be jaded as well, paying that kind of money and knowing they will say no at every turn. |
| "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." | |
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| bachophile | Jul 15 2016, 03:45 AM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Just crazy Here I could get an MRI and an Ortho without one shekel out of pocket |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Lisa | Jul 15 2016, 04:16 AM Post #15 |
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Junior Carp
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If you want a cheap/easy solution to try yourself (one that conventional medicine probably won't recommend), get a book called "The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook" by Claire Davies. Mr. Davies was a world-renowned piano tuner for most of his life until he developed debilitating shoulder issues that no amount of conventional medical treatment could cure. He found the only thing that relieved it was treatment from one specific massage therapist and when she moved away, he started doing his own research to find out why her technique worked but others didn't. He ended up curing himself, then after helping a bunch of other people who also had no luck with their pain, he finally ended up quitting piano tuning and becoming a massage therapist. The short version is that his pain was caused by muscle knots from years of repetitive stress from the piano tuning -- which he asserts is the cause of much of the pain/stiffness you feel from getting older. Those muscle knots can be aggravated or brought on by trauma such as whiplash, car accidents or falls. Once the knot is there, it will continue to cause pain and problems until it is relieved. The whole book is do it yourself techniques for finding and relieving the muscle knots using simple tools like tennis balls and foam rollers. I can vouch for his treatment working on some knee issues I was having -- I had been to the physical therapist and to a sports doc who couldn't find anything on an MRI. Following the techniques in the book helped me when nothing else did. My I-am-not-a-doctor-I-only-play-one-on-the-internet opinion is that years of installing light fixtures overhead probably gave you enough muscle knots that you had the nagging shoulder pain. And then your fall probably caused you to tense and torque your muscles in a weird way which left you with a bunch of additional ones. I know that muscle knots sounds like a stupid small thing that couldn't possibly cause this much pain, but that is so not true -- following his techniques, I have found one tiny spot on my leg that, when pressed, sent searing pain shooting down my leg into my foot and up into my lower back and shoulder -- from one dime-sized little spot. And muscle relaxants, drugs, etc. don't really make them go away -- the only way to get them gone is to massage them out. And at any rate, you'd only be out a couple bucks (or nothing if you can get the book from the library and you already own a golf ball and tennis ball!) if it didn't work. Given the fact that I have had several MRIs over the years for random aches and pains and they never turned anything up, I'd be inclined to try this before shelling out big bucks. Good luck - hope you feel better soon! Edited by Lisa, Jul 15 2016, 04:22 AM.
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| Jolly | Jul 15 2016, 05:21 AM Post #16 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I'm guessing rotator cuff, but you won't know until you have a definitive diagnosis. Get off your damn wallet and at least get a decent diagnosis. Then do your cost/benefit. But beware... At some point, the temporary often turns into the permanent. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Axtremus | Jul 15 2016, 05:44 AM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Every now and then, I experience slight pain/"tightness" somewhere between my neck and shoulder, and I cannot turn my head one side as such as the other side. For me, what relieves it has been exercises ... I have found Yoga derived "twist" poses to be most effective. |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jul 15 2016, 05:49 AM Post #18 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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That's absolutely true, Steve. Tell your docs your insurance an financial situation but get looked at, and get a plan together.
This kind of thing is exactly what I'm talking about when I mention socialized medicine. It shouldn't cost someone their retirement to get their shoulder fixed. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| kluurs | Jul 15 2016, 06:00 AM Post #19 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Jolly's right on this - could be rotator cuff. I had something called frozen shoulder with limited ability to raise my arm. It took a while - physical therapy - exercise and several months of effort - but eventually I got full mobility back. I still do those exercises several times a week. But you need a real diagnosis of what is going on. It sounds like you know what you need to do. You're worth far more than a used truck - and once you've got your shoulder working again - you'll be able to find a path forward. It's a sad day when I'm siding with another guy's wife - but she's right. |
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| George K | Jul 15 2016, 12:49 PM Post #20 |
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Finally
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About 8 years ago, I was awakened from sleep by a sudden pain behind my right scapula. The next day, I could not extend my arm forward (the position you'd use if you play the piano). Raising the arm was possible but painful. Saw an ortho guy and he thought I tore a rotator cuff muscle. Over the next four weeks, pain and disability got better with no intervention other than some anti-inflammatories. As we age, a significant number of us will develop rotator cuff disease. Most of the time it's asymptomatic - something that's found on autopsy. You sound pretty classic for a rotator cuff injury to me (disclaimer, I'm not an orthopedic surgeon), and I'm not sure that any kind of imaging would be needed for a diagnosis. But, that's between you and your doc. The important thing is to get into PT with the goal of strengthening the other muscles of the cuff. A minor tear can heal on its own (as mine did). However, the only way to know if it's a minor tear is with an MRI. If it were me, I'd see the doc with an attitude of "lets see how it goes over the next few weeks before I get into the magnet." And, as others have said, you want to maintain mobility. Don't let the joint freeze up. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Copper | Jul 15 2016, 12:57 PM Post #21 |
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Shortstop
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We have several 61's here, including me. The list of things that hurt is getting long. I don't know how long the list will get before I bring it to a doctor. But if something crosses the line between pain and not working then you should get it checked. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Steve Miller | Jul 15 2016, 04:29 PM Post #22 |
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Bull-Carp
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I called my GP's (gatekeeper's) office and was told he was booked through August 23rd. They offered me an appointment with a physicians assistant on Monday and I took it. I figure he can order an XRay or MRI or whatever just as well as my GP and we can go from there. |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 15 2016, 06:56 PM Post #23 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I'll be 61 next month and I am more regularly experiencing similar left shoulder pain and lack of mobility. There are some exercises I do that help a lot. Let me see if I can find them. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Horace | Jul 15 2016, 09:57 PM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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+1 |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Catseye | Jul 15 2016, 11:47 PM Post #25 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Me, too. But mine flares suddenly and barfully, takes my breath away, literally hurts to breathe, and only aspirin makes it go away. The rest of the time it is asymptomatic. I'm pretty sure I aggravated it through my gym machine workouts, specifically on the pec-deck, although it was in the down position of the dumbbell flye when it flared to the big pain leagues. I was like: live with it, wimpy. Right. When I commence chiro I will mention it, but until then it's like aspirin and don't breathe for awhile until the crisis passes. |
| "How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex | |
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) but that has never stopped me to say something anyway 





11:21 AM Jul 11