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Why, yes, Mrs. Clinton, I can imagine it.
Topic Started: Jul 13 2016, 12:19 PM (1,439 Views)
Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Now Klaus, watch how that will be ridiculed, and you may begin to see the problem.....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Klaus
Jul 14 2016, 11:37 PM
Jolly
Jul 14 2016, 04:39 PM
Wasted vote.
That's a very short-sighted point of view.

If enough people vote for Johnson, he may not become president this time, but it is certainly possible that a very good result for a third party candidate would trigger a fundamental change to the American political landscape. For instance, maybe you have three parties of similar strength in 10 years. Or one of today's big parties is gone and is replaced by the Libertarian party. Or at the very least it would make the two big parties of today rethink their policies.

A vote has more influence than only determining the next president. Don't ignore that.
Nah.

Experience. And history. From Teddy Roosevelt to George Wallace to The Man With Funny Ears, all wasted votes.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Aqua Letifer
Jul 15 2016, 03:10 AM
Jolly
Jul 14 2016, 05:51 PM
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 05:37 PM
Jolly
Jul 14 2016, 04:39 PM
Wasted vote.
Yeah okay. :lol: Like those fine Christian values Trump supports, do you? How about his Trump Steaks economic policy?
Politics ain't beanbag and you don't get everything you want in any given candidate, You get what you get, and then you try to get as much as you can from what you have.

One of two people will win the Presidency. It 's either Clinton or Trump and it won't be anyone else. So pick, which one do you want? Which one has views closer to what you'd like to see. Which one do you think can be influenced by people of like mind to you, to do some of the things you'd like to see done.

I don't like Trump, but at least with him, I get a spoonful of political porridge. With Clinton, I get an empty bowl.

Why would I want an empty bowl?
That's stupid.
No, padawan, that's practical.

The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Larry
Jul 15 2016, 04:06 AM
Klaus
Jul 14 2016, 11:42 PM
Larry
Jul 14 2016, 06:15 PM
You think, as he has stated he does, that the majority of crime in the US is due to drugs being illegal?
This is not a matter of opinion; you can just look at the data to see whether that statement is true. I'm sure somebody has already collected that data.
Drug use is a symptom of the problem. The actual problem is much more complex, and facing the problem and then dealing with the problem would require a sea shift in ideology among many people - a shift that will never happen.
When my dad was a child, there was no drug problem. Not down here.

If you didn't work, you starved.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Catseye
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Pisa-Carp
Quote:
 
People are no darned good.


Well, there's that. :D

To get all fancypants about complicated reasons for crime and drugs and whatnot is to nuance it unnecessarily, IMO.

The cause is a two-headed hydra, growing from the stem that is drugs: One head is addiction and the other is the enabling entity, and it doesn't matter which party is ascendant. Drugs mean profit. Profit for everybody! Feds! States! Locals!

And geopolitics are so enmeshed with drugs that you couldn't untangle it in a thousand years.

But the thing is addiction. A crack addict will do anything for his next fix. No need to get ornate about the sociology.

Mostly though, it's that people are no darn good.
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Jul 14 2016, 06:01 PM
I vote debt reduction. That's about it.

Ms. Clinton has no hope of doing any debt reduction.
Mr. Trump has an extremely small hope of doing any debt reduction.
You got it backwards. A Donald Trump presidency will lead to a massive INCREASE in national debt:

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/headlines/20160627-trump-or-clinton-one-budget-tax-proposal-would-add-10t-to-deficit.ece

Quote:
 
A new Washington study says Donald Trump's tax and budget plans would make the national debt skyrocket by $10 trillion or more over the coming decade, mostly because of his ambitious and expensive tax cuts.

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget says Democrat Hillary Clinton's agenda -- which relies on tax increases to pay for proposals such as making the Affordable Care Act more generous -- would increase the debt by about $250 billion over 10 years.
...
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jul 15 2016, 05:12 AM
Klaus
Jul 14 2016, 11:37 PM
Jolly
Jul 14 2016, 04:39 PM
Wasted vote.
That's a very short-sighted point of view.

If enough people vote for Johnson, he may not become president this time, but it is certainly possible that a very good result for a third party candidate would trigger a fundamental change to the American political landscape. For instance, maybe you have three parties of similar strength in 10 years. Or one of today's big parties is gone and is replaced by the Libertarian party. Or at the very least it would make the two big parties of today rethink their policies.

A vote has more influence than only determining the next president. Don't ignore that.
Nah.

Experience. And history. From Teddy Roosevelt to George Wallace to The Man With Funny Ears, all wasted votes.
You would have presumably told the Wright Brothers that flying machines don't work either. There was ample experience and history supporting that statement, after all.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jul 15 2016, 05:11 AM
Now Klaus, watch how that will be ridiculed, and you may begin to see the problem.....
For your usual standards, the links you posted were surprisingly reasonable ;)
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
Jul 15 2016, 09:47 AM
Larry
Jul 15 2016, 05:11 AM
Now Klaus, watch how that will be ridiculed, and you may begin to see the problem.....
For your usual standards, the links you posted were surprisingly reasonable ;)
Sometimes Larry's right hand doesn't always know what his far right hand is doing. :D
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Klaus
Jul 15 2016, 05:26 AM
Jolly
Jul 15 2016, 05:12 AM
Klaus
Jul 14 2016, 11:37 PM
Jolly
Jul 14 2016, 04:39 PM
Wasted vote.
That's a very short-sighted point of view.

If enough people vote for Johnson, he may not become president this time, but it is certainly possible that a very good result for a third party candidate would trigger a fundamental change to the American political landscape. For instance, maybe you have three parties of similar strength in 10 years. Or one of today's big parties is gone and is replaced by the Libertarian party. Or at the very least it would make the two big parties of today rethink their policies.

A vote has more influence than only determining the next president. Don't ignore that.
Nah.

Experience. And history. From Teddy Roosevelt to George Wallace to The Man With Funny Ears, all wasted votes.
You would have presumably told the Wright Brothers that flying machines don't work either. There was ample experience and history supporting that statement, after all.
Actually, no.

The reason we have flying machines is not necessarily the Wright Brothers. The reason we have flying machines, is that aluminum mining and smelting underwent an amazing transformation. During George washington's time, aluminum was more precious than gold. It wasn't until late in the 19th century that aluminum became plentiful and cheap.

The Wright engine is the first time aluminum was used in an internal combustion engine. If they hadn't done it, someone else would have.

So do a bit of research before coming to erroneous conclusions.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Yes, flying machines were made possible by advances in technology, after centuries of failing attempts.

Just as sometimes political changes are made possible by societal changes.

I'm merely pointing out that your "experience and history" argument is not so convincing.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
A vote for Johnson is a vote away from Clinton. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-is-gary-johnson-taking-more-support-from-clinton-or-trump/

It appears Johnson voters would be more likely to vote for Clinton if he wasn't in the race.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Klaus
Jul 15 2016, 02:38 PM
Yes, flying machines were made possible by advances in technology, after centuries of failing attempts.

Just as sometimes political changes are made possible by societal changes.

I'm merely pointing out that your "experience and history" argument is not so convincing.
Ok, show me what societal changes in the U.S. are enough to precipitate a viable candidacy by a third party candidate.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Well, look at France. They have a similar two party system, with a history of presidents from the socialist party or UMP. Yet at the next election, FN has a serious chance of winning the presidency. This is a development that had been going on for at least a decade. Something similar might happen in the US.

Actually, with Trump the GOP has become quite FN-like, leaving ample room for a party that is more like the GOP of the 1980s.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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