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Why, yes, Mrs. Clinton, I can imagine it.
Topic Started: Jul 13 2016, 12:19 PM (1,442 Views)
Catseye
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Pisa-Carp
justme
Jul 14 2016, 09:51 AM
thank you, Catseye, for your explanation. Sorry to be so dense.

Still. That kind of candidate doesn't inspire trust and doesn't appeal to me. Quite frankly he scares the S*** out of me. But then so does Hillary.

Vote Gary Johnson!

I don't think you're dense, Justme. Everybody's confused.

I think I may have talked myself into a better frame where Trump is concerned. I hate when that happens . . .
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
Aqua, I can't disagree with your perspective. I have run your examples and a myriad of others through my mind. It's impossible to make sense out of nonsense, which is what I hear when I listed to any of Trump's stump speeches (cringe).

He is either exceedingly clever, brilliant in using a new unique strategy, is willing to get up at 4 am every day and fight for what he believes he can bring to the Country, move the country out of the quagmire of growing internal tensions towards a more positive future, yada yada.. .
(One thing I do like about Trump, is that he has forced conversations regarding topics "we" have been told to not discuss or question. He has turned PC on its ear, and forced the media to correct his bombastic statements thereby using media against itself, causing immense frustration for a media that expects to control the narrative and ordain the next Pres.)

. . . Or like I implied, he's a rather shallow nutcase with lots of money and a Jet, looking for something to do just for yuks.

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Larry
Jul 14 2016, 09:35 AM
One problem is that it's been so long since some people have actually seen a leader they don't know how to recognize one.
You're assuming he's a leader, Larry. There's nothing about Trump that suggests he'd put the needs of American people ahead of his own, and some about Trump suggests the opposite.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Quote:
 
The people Rainman and I have read both say it: you have to understand Trump to understand what he says. We make a mistake when we apply the same standards as we do to the usual politicians' pie-in-the-sky BS.


What like the truth? Like applying the truth?
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Aqua Letifer
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Rainman
Jul 14 2016, 09:57 AM
Aqua, I can't disagree with your perspective. I have run your examples and a myriad of others through my mind. It's impossible to make sense out of nonsense, which is what I hear when I listed to any of Trump's stump speeches (cringe).

He is either exceedingly clever, brilliant in using a new unique strategy...


Sure, he can be very clever. That can certainly be a possibility. But that's not a reason to support anybody for president. The Unabomber was clever. Very much so. Whitey Bulger was clever.

Quote:
 
is willing to get up at 4 am every day and fight for what he believes he can bring to the Country, move the country out of the quagmire of growing internal tensions towards a more positive future, yada yada.. .


Again, man, there's no credible evidence he wants to help out the country. "Because he said so" isn't good enough because he's a liar. Liar in the sense that he says one thing when he knows it's not true—I can't believe we've come to the point where that has to be explained.

Quote:
 
(One thing I do like about Trump, is that he has forced conversations regarding topics "we" have been told to not discuss or question. He has turned PC on its ear, and forced the media to correct his bombastic statements thereby using media against itself, causing immense frustration for a media that expects to control the narrative and ordain the next Pres.)


See that's another thing. I think a lot of his supporters just don't like the media. "I hate the liberal media. The liberal media is confounded by Trump. Therefore I like Trump and he's what's best for America."

That's not a logical line of reasoning, it doesn't make sense. Political correctness annoys the hell out of me, too, but I'm not about to vote for a liar advocating war crimes just because I don't read the New York Times. That's stupid and irresponsible.

Quote:
 
. . . Or like I implied, he's a rather shallow nutcase with lots of money and a Jet, looking for something to do just for yuks.


Could be a lot of other things, too. But my basic point is this: if it's not clear what his game is then what exactly are his supporters voting for? If they don't know then what kind of vote is that?
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 10:22 AM
But my basic point is this: if it's not clear what his game is then what exactly are his supporters voting for? If they don't know then what kind of vote is that?
That's what I don't understand!

I simply don't get it.
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
justme
Jul 14 2016, 10:26 AM
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 10:22 AM
But my basic point is this: if it's not clear what his game is then what exactly are his supporters voting for? If they don't know then what kind of vote is that?
That's what I don't understand!

I simply don't get it.
There's nothing to get. It's stupid.

You can't praise somebody for confounding the media with misinformation while at the same time claim he has some great ideas for the country. How in the hell would you know? So, what, he's being a straight shooter when he says he's going to fix immigration, fix the VA, etc., but everything else—including his insults, his prejudices and his plan to commit war crimes—is just a lie to confuse the media?

"He's telling the truth about fixing the country because I want to believe that; his comments that I could never publicly justify are just lies to turn the media on its head."

That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 08:23 AM

what are his supporters voting for? Seriously, what?

A non-politician.

Anything beyond that doesn't really matter.

Kind of like voting based on skin color or gender

It's called identity

It is very, very important
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Copper
Jul 14 2016, 11:36 AM
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 08:23 AM

what are his supporters voting for? Seriously, what?

A non-politician.
Just write in Mickey Mouse.
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Copper
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Shortstop
I thought you preferred criminals and traitors.

Mick is nothing like that.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Friday
Senior Carp
Copper
Jul 14 2016, 11:36 AM
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 08:23 AM

what are his supporters voting for? Seriously, what?

A non-politician.

Anything beyond that doesn't really matter.

Kind of like voting based on skin color or gender

It's called identity

It is very, very important

This will have no effect on the elections, but....

My daughter took US History last semester and her teacher took a poll, asking every kid in all his classes who they would vote for and why. Trump won because he's not a politician.

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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Friday
Jul 14 2016, 12:19 PM
Copper
Jul 14 2016, 11:36 AM
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 08:23 AM

what are his supporters voting for? Seriously, what?

A non-politician.

Anything beyond that doesn't really matter.

Kind of like voting based on skin color or gender

It's called identity

It is very, very important

This will have no effect on the elections, but....

My daughter took US History last semester and her teacher took a poll, asking every kid in all his classes who they would vote for and why. Trump won because he's not a politician.

There can be legitimate reasons to vote for Donald Trump. Sure, there absolutely can be. But "he's not a politician" isn't at all.

That's like saying Ted Bundy would do better at working on my car than my previous mechanic because the previous guy screwed me on the rotor costs.

"He's a good pick because he's not a politician" is a moron's conclusion.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Friday
Senior Carp
It may not be a good reason, but it's indicative of how people feel. For whatever reason, these high school kids don't like politicians.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Friday
Jul 14 2016, 12:56 PM
It may not be a good reason, but it's indicative of how people feel. For whatever reason, these high school kids don't like politicians.
Being fed up is totally legit. And I'm surprised by people who aren't. But that doesn't mean someone who's not that is a reasonable choice.

Pikachu is not a politician. Neither is the coffee I'm drinking right now or my left ass cheek. By the same logic then those three should be serious contenders as Trump's running mates because hey, not politicians!

I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 10:14 AM
Larry
Jul 14 2016, 09:35 AM
One problem is that it's been so long since some people have actually seen a leader they don't know how to recognize one.
You're assuming he's a leader, Larry. There's nothing about Trump that suggests he'd put the needs of American people ahead of his own, and some about Trump suggests the opposite.
I'm not assuming anything, because I *can* spot a leader when I see one.

Whether or not he'd put the needs of the American people ahead of his own is a completely separate issue. Do you honestly think Hillary puts the needs of the American people ahead of her own? If you do, I've got some beach property for sale in Arizona...

So let's talk about whether or not he'd put the needs of the American people ahead of his own - not that this issue has to be phrased that way, since it is entirely possible to put them both on the same level of importance. Nor does it have anything to do with my remark about him being a leader.

Why would a man with more money than he can possibly spend in his or his greatgrandchildrens' lifetime spend so much money seeking a job that would require him to leave the business that made him that rich in the first place? How exactly does that constitute him putting his own needs above ours?

Why would a man with all that money, fame, power, etc. subject himself to all the ridicule, scorn, danger, etc. give up the relatively safe and footloose life he was leading and put himself and every member of his family in danger (yes, they're in danger) if all he was trying to do was use the position of president for his own personal gain? And exactly how *would* he gain?

Personally, I find the notion that the man shouldn't be trusted because he's in it for personal gain to be hilarious, given that you just described the motivation of almost every single politician on earth during our lifetimes. It is precisely because he does NOT fit that mold you've chosen to shove him into that makes it even funnier.

It's quite possible - no, obvious - that he is *not* motivated by the things you want to claim. If self interest was what was motivating him, he'd have stayed out of the race altogether, and spent his remaining years living a life of safe luxury, with enough money to escape whatever mess the country fell into. Perhaps you should start by listening to what *he* says he's motivated by - a desire to make America great again. Probably half the people in the country has at one time or another thought about what they'd do to make this country great again if they only had the chance - Trump has that chance, and it was because he has the financial wherewithal to do it.

Those of us who don't have that ability *do* have a chance this election to take the power away from the political elites and the media. Trump has gotten down into the muck and mire they hide in and dragged their sorry asses out into the sunshine - I'm sorry you found the mess that made distasteful, but that's just what it took to get the job done.

Now back to leadership skillls (my original point):

An analogy could be a football game. At any football game you have different groups: First, there are those on the playing field. There you again have two groups: 1. Those players who look 100 yards down the field and see the goalpost, and those who are bent over looking at the ground, ready to take the ball ten yards. There's only one man looking at the goalpost, the others are staring at the ten yard line. If the man looking at the goalpost is a good leader, he has surrounded himself with the best "ten yard starers" he can find, because he knows he can't get there by himself, and he must move the ball using strategy.

Then, there are the people in the stands - each and every one of them with an opinion on how that should be done, most of them wrong.

That fits with what I call the "90/10 rule" about people, where (using generalities) 10% of the people are leaders, 90% of the people are followers. But 100% of them have an opinion. Those in the 10% can spot the others who are leaders - those iin the 90% couldn't spot a leader if they tried. You can apply this "90/10 rule" to just about any situation involving people that you want to, it works every time.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Copper
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Shortstop
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 12:48 PM
There can be legitimate reasons to vote for

That is beyond arrogant.

Any reason at all is a legitimate reason to vote for someone as president.

Any reason at all.

If you can't understand that you can't understand freedom and the right to vote.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jul 14 2016, 01:13 PM
I'm not assuming anything, because I *can* spot a leader when I see one.

You can spot a leader when you see one. Catseye said he/she could spot stupid when he/she saw it. (Sorry, Catseye, I haven't been back long enough to be sure of your sex)

Well... I can spot nonsense.

And Trump so far has made no sense to me. You're right, he's better than Hillary.

But Gary Johnson will be getting my vote. He's the only one who does make sense.

And don't say I'm throwing my vote away. I'm voting my conscious and for what I feel is best for the country. I don't like the idea of voting and having to hold my nose while I'm doing it.

JMO
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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Catseye
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Pisa-Carp
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(Sorry, Catseye, I haven't been back long enough to be sure of your sex.)


Oh, you know. The last time I bought sexy underwear they gift-wrapped it.

I'm a goil. Posted Image
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
justme
Jul 14 2016, 01:31 PM
Larry
Jul 14 2016, 01:13 PM
I'm not assuming anything, because I *can* spot a leader when I see one.

You can spot a leader when you see one. Catseye said he/she could spot stupid when he/she saw it. (Sorry, Catseye, I haven't been back long enough to be sure of your sex)

Well... I can spot nonsense.

And Trump so far has made no sense to me. You're right, he's better than Hillary.

But Gary Johnson will be getting my vote. He's the only one who does make sense.

And don't say I'm throwing my vote away. I'm voting my conscious and for what I feel is best for the country. I don't like the idea of voting and having to hold my nose while I'm doing it.

JMO
I think that's the proper way to vote, JustMe. Always.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Catseye
Jul 14 2016, 01:44 PM
Quote:
 
(Sorry, Catseye, I haven't been back long enough to be sure of your sex.)


Oh, you know. The last time I bought sexy underwear they gift-wrapped it.

I'm a goil. Posted Image
:thumb:
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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Friday
Senior Carp
Aqua Letifer
Jul 14 2016, 01:01 PM
Friday
Jul 14 2016, 12:56 PM
It may not be a good reason, but it's indicative of how people feel. For whatever reason, these high school kids don't like politicians.
Being fed up is totally legit. And I'm surprised by people who aren't. But that doesn't mean someone who's not that is a reasonable choice.

Pikachu is not a politician. Neither is the coffee I'm drinking right now or my left ass cheek. By the same logic then those three should be serious contenders as Trump's running mates because hey, not politicians!

Trump or Clinton? Those were the choices the kids were given. And (for the most part) they are the choices the country is given. I know there may be other candidates, but a lot of people won't consider them.
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Adults are given a third choice if and only if they are capable of thinking outside the box. I don't agree with Gary Johnson on everything but he's a credible choice. IMHO
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Wasted vote.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Shortstop
No such thing.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jul 14 2016, 04:39 PM
Wasted vote.
Not for me. I can't in good conscious vote for Trump or Hillary.
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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