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Omar the Club Regular
Topic Started: Jun 14 2016, 10:21 AM (978 Views)
Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Tom I really don't know why you are fixating on this allegation that the murderer was homosexual. So what if he was?

The murderer was first and foremost, bat **** crazy. Anything else about his deluded persona is secondary.

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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
I'm wondering whether the bat**** crazy creep wasn't necessarily targeting gays. It's possible, since he frequented the place, he was familiar with it and knew there was only two exits. He knew the layout.

I wish my brain would just stop thinking about the whys. But the whys are important in order to understand how to prevent this from happening again.

So far I haven't heard anything useful as far as preventing this from happening over and over again.

We need to reassess our gun laws. I'm not saying take them away but mental screening is a must.

We need to stop being so divided on every little issue. We will never have any meaningful dialogue as long as we continue to attack each other.

Stop the bigotry against gun owners and the bigotry against blacks, Hispanics and gays.

There's nothing funny about any of this. I truly understand dark humor. It kept my family sane during the murder trial. But we were laughing at our own predicament. I would never laugh in the face of true horror and try main at the expense of others.

I'm trying to look inward to see what I can do to help prevent this from ever happening again and it seems the one thing I can definitely do is reassess my conservative values and look at gun laws. I'm not saying ban them. But something has to be done so that nut cases cannot get them.

I don't know. The whole thing upsets me and brings back some pretty rough stuff. I just keep thinking of the families and know they're thinking they never want to see this happen to anyone else.
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Luke's Dad
Jun 14 2016, 11:17 AM
More likely this will be a puzzle that will be hammered into producing the desired picture even if the pieces don't fit.
Hero opens door.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-a-heroic-marine’s-military-training-helped-him-save-dozens-from-orlando-gunman/ar-AAh5rRc?li=BBnb7Kz
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
I'd really hate to be that Marine.

Who's to say how imminent the threat was? Who's to say if those people had died without his action? The situation was a complete mess.

But the more popular the news story, the more black-and-white they'll want it.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Luke's Dad
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Aqua Letifer
Jun 16 2016, 09:09 AM
I'd really hate to be that Marine.

Who's to say how imminent the threat was? Who's to say if those people had died without his action? The situation was a complete mess.

But the more popular the news story, the more black-and-white they'll want it.
I'm not saying that it wasn't a good thing that he was there. It was, and his actions likely saved those people. They should all be grateful to him. What I am saying is that what he displayed was more common sense and not really heroic. What it really points out is my earlier contention that people are sheep. There is an exit door (that better have been clearly labeled) right there, and 60-70 people completely miss it due to their panic.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Luke's Dad
Jun 16 2016, 09:38 AM
Aqua Letifer
Jun 16 2016, 09:09 AM
I'd really hate to be that Marine.

Who's to say how imminent the threat was? Who's to say if those people had died without his action? The situation was a complete mess.

But the more popular the news story, the more black-and-white they'll want it.
I'm not saying that it wasn't a good thing that he was there. It was, and his actions likely saved those people. They should all be grateful to him. What I am saying is that what he displayed was more common sense and not really heroic. What it really points out is my earlier contention that people are sheep. There is an exit door (that better have been clearly labeled) right there, and 60-70 people completely miss it due to their panic.
It really isn't. You have to train yourself to react to gunfire in a certain way. A lot of soldiers are taught to always be thinking about where they'd take cover if gunfire opened up from various directions. That's not a thing most of us ever consider. Then there's not wasting time in the first few seconds and immediately taking that position.

Would a lot of people have figured out that opening a door is a good idea? Yeah, but who knows how long it'd take the average person compared to this guy. Who knows how much time he had before the gunman came over. Who knows what would have happened if he took longer, etc., etc.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Copper
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Shortstop
Maybe he freed the people who otherwise would have stopped the gunman.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
I'm sorry Aqua, but while I am glad that he was there to help those people, opening a door is not quite on the same level as the guys that brought people to safety at the WTC on 9/11 then went back to get more. It doesn't compare with the guy that layer on top of his girlfriend to protect her from the Illinois theater shooting a couple years back, and it doesn't compare to the guys that took down the terrorist on the French train last year. To use the word hero for his actions devalues the word.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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justme
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HOLY CARP!!!
Sorry. I think I must be misinterpreting something.
Edited by justme, Jun 16 2016, 02:41 PM.
"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
I make no apologies for hurting people's feelings or sensibilities.

The guy opened a frigging door. It was the right thing to do, it was good that he kept his wits, but that doesn't make him a hero no matter how much the Post dresses it up.

Excusing panic and people acting like sheep doesn't help them, it only hurts them and
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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George K
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Finally
FBI finds no evidence that Mateen Pulse because it was a gay club.
Quote:
 
The FBI has found no evidence so far that Omar Mateen, who killed 49 people and wounded more than 53 at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, chose the popular establishment because of its gay clientele, U.S law enforcement officials said.

“While there can be no denying the significant impact on the gay community, the investigation hasn’t revealed that he targeted Pulse because it was a gay club,” a U.S. law enforcement official said.

Soon after the shooting in the early morning of June 12, top U.S officials such as the FBI director and U.S. attorney general described it as both a hate crime and an act of Islamic terrorism. The shooting rattled the gay community, which felt singled out by Mateen.

“People often act out of more than one motivation,” Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch said in the days after the attack. “This was clearly an act of terror and an act of hate.”

A month later, though, a complete picture of what motivated Mateen remains murky and may never be known since he was killed in a shootout with police and did not leave a manifesto. Officials said there is no evidence thus far that Mateen, 29, was gay or that his attack was motivated by homophobia.

The assessment is based on interviews and an examination of his computer and other electronic media.

After the attack, speculation surfaced that Mateen was gay as people came forward to say they had seen him at the club previously and had contact with him on gay dating apps. One man told the Spanish-language television network Univision that he had slept with Mateen.

Even Mateen’s first wife, Sitora Yusufiy, raised the possibility that Mateen was possibly gay but conceded it was a suspicion and nothing more. His current wife did not think he was gay, according to a person familiar with the case.

The FBI, however, has been unable to verify that Mateen used gay dating apps and instead has found evidence that Mateen was cheating on his wife with other women.
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
^^^So we are coming close to "no particular reason" for the killings.
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