The Atomic Bomb of Politics

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The Atomic Bomb of Politics
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 4 2016, 06:58 PM (289 Views)
Jolly	Feb 4 2016, 06:58 PM Post #1
Geaux Tigers! Posts: 47,617 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 19, 2005	http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/sns-bc-tn-xgr--constitutional-convention-20160204-story.html
	*The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.*- George Soros


Steve Miller	Feb 5 2016, 07:48 AM Post #2
Bull-Carp Posts: 7,637 Group: Members Member #25 Joined: April 19, 2005	Quote: "This is the atomic bomb of politics," Matheny said. "The federal movement must know the states have mobilized, and we have put an atomic bomb on a plane and it is flying over the District of Columbia. And if they don't listen, then we're going to get done what needs to get done." Seems a bit over the top.
	Wag more Bark less


Jolly	Feb 5 2016, 03:26 PM Post #3
Geaux Tigers! Posts: 47,617 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 19, 2005	Nah, ya think? But wouldn't a Constitutional Convention be fun?
	*The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.*- George Soros


jon-nyc	Feb 5 2016, 04:11 PM Post #4
Cheers Posts: 54,428 Group: Moderators Member #119 Joined: April 22, 2005	It would be fun but fruitless. If there were sufficient agreement about what to replace our government with, a convention wouldn't be necessary.
	In my defense, I was left unsupervised.


Copper	Feb 5 2016, 05:05 PM Post #5
Shortstop Posts: 29,907 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	Would it really be fun? I think it would be a mess. I think the only good that could come of it would be to reduce the federal debt. But I suspect it would only make it worse with a new bucket of hair-brained schemes. And the media coverage would be just plain painful.
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


Jolly	Feb 5 2016, 05:47 PM Post #6
Geaux Tigers! Posts: 47,617 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 19, 2005	Of course it would be a mess. A glorious, politics-to-the-brim, power brokered mess. But the threat might actually be enough to make some wooden heads within the Beltway actually listen.
	*The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.*- George Soros


Aqua Letifer	Feb 5 2016, 06:04 PM Post #7
ZOOOOOM! Posts: 45,902 Group: Members Member #262 Joined: September 22, 2005	Yeah I always say that the best way to be taken seriously is to engage in atomic-bomb-dropping rhetoric.
	I cite irreconcilable differences.


Jolly	Feb 6 2016, 05:53 AM Post #8
Geaux Tigers! Posts: 47,617 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 19, 2005	Get over the 10 state mark and suddenly it becomes rhetoric with bite. Words alone are never much good...As the guy with the big teeth said, "Talk softly and carry"...Well, you know the rest.
	*The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.*- George Soros


Mikhailoh	Feb 6 2016, 06:20 AM Post #9
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead Posts: 92,842 Group: Members Member #181 Joined: April 26, 2005	Jolly Feb 5 2016, 05:47 PM Of course it would be a mess. A glorious, politics-to-the-brim, power brokered mess. But the threat might actually be enough to make some wooden heads within the Beltway actually listen. Yep. Read "Tempest At Dawn" about the original constitutional convention. That was a mess, but the end product was and is a fine, fine framework. The issues they addressed there are just as timely today.
	Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball


Catseye	Feb 6 2016, 06:40 AM Post #10
Pisa-Carp Posts: 5,135 Group: Members Member #1,390 Joined: March 5, 2015	Mikhailoh Feb 6 2016, 06:20 AM Jolly Feb 5 2016, 05:47 PM Of course it would be a mess. A glorious, politics-to-the-brim, power brokered mess. But the threat might actually be enough to make some wooden heads within the Beltway actually listen. Yep. Read "Tempest At Dawn" about the original constitutional convention. That was a mess, but the end product was and is a fine, fine framework. The issues they addressed there are just as timely today. I am right now reading "Summer of 1787" by David Stewart. Still not very far into it, but it's proving to be very meticulous. The first (?I think) order of business took months to sort out, namely how the states should be represented in Congress. One cute thing: One of the delegates, can't remember who, filled a whole page with doodles. This page survived and Stewart published it in the book. Bulletin: People doodled back then much like we do now -- faces, letters, squiggles, etc. You can picture this fellow, slouched in his seat, sweltering in his close-fit clothes in that hot room with the windows shut, bored out of his mind at the endless palavering.
	"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex


Axtremus	Feb 6 2016, 06:40 AM Post #11
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 35,700 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: April 18, 2005	Mikhailoh Feb 6 2016, 06:20 AM Read "Tempest At Dawn" about the original constitutional convention. That was a mess, but the end product was and is a fine, fine framework. What came out of the convention had no Bill of Rights, left slavery intact, counted black as 3/5 of a person, no voting right for women ... The original Constitution was bad enough of a mess that there were enough excuses for present day USA to ~~invade~~ liberate the old USA for its oil and gas reserve. When made the Constituion better was a series of amendments and Supreme Court decisions, not another convention.



Mikhailoh	Feb 6 2016, 06:47 AM Post #12
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead Posts: 92,842 Group: Members Member #181 Joined: April 26, 2005	So you support Citizens United. Good to know.
	Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball


Catseye	Feb 6 2016, 06:47 AM Post #13
Pisa-Carp Posts: 5,135 Group: Members Member #1,390 Joined: March 5, 2015	Axtremus Feb 6 2016, 06:40 AM Mikhailoh Feb 6 2016, 06:20 AM Read "Tempest At Dawn" about the original constitutional convention. That was a mess, but the end product was and is a fine, fine framework. What came out of the convention had no Bill of Rights, left slavery intact, counted black as 3/5 of a person, no voting right for women ... The original Constitution was bad enough of a mess that there were enough excuses for present day USA to ~~invade~~ liberate the old USA for its oil and gas reserve. When made the Constituion better was a series of amendments and Supreme Court decisions, not another convention. If you read "Perils of Peace" by Thomas Fleming, you'll get an idea of what a gigantic mess the whole country was, how close it was to dissolving even before it got off the ground, and how hard-fought the so-called "good bits" of the Constitution were.
	"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex


George K	Feb 6 2016, 06:59 AM Post #14
Finally Posts: 89,012 Group: Members Member #249 Joined: August 4, 2005	Mikhailoh Feb 6 2016, 06:47 AM So you support Citizens United. Good to know.
	A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18


Axtremus	Feb 6 2016, 07:31 AM Post #15
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 35,700 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: April 18, 2005	Mikhailoh Feb 6 2016, 06:47 AM So you support Citizens United. Good to know. So you oppose Brown v. Board of Education? Good to know. (You know, you could have reached back a little further and brought up Dred Scott.)



Mikhailoh	Feb 6 2016, 07:45 AM Post #16
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead Posts: 92,842 Group: Members Member #181 Joined: April 26, 2005	Have a nice day Ax.
	Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball


Axtremus	Feb 6 2016, 07:50 AM Post #17
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 35,700 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: April 18, 2005	Mikhailoh Feb 6 2016, 07:45 AM Have a nice day Ax. Thanks, same to you!



Larry	Feb 6 2016, 08:07 AM Post #18
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	Axtremus Feb 6 2016, 06:40 AM What came out of the convention ............... counted black as 3/5 of a person I won't bother explaining how you missed the mark on the other points, but I do want to address this one. It did no such thing. Let's read it: "Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included in this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a number of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other persons." First, those still bound to servitude are still referred to as persons, second, blacks aren't even mentioned, the only ethic group mentioned are Indians. Third, Indians were mentioned to draw a distinction between those who were taxed and those who weren't. Fourth, the owners of slaves wanted to be able to count their slaves' votes (which they would then cast themselves) in order to cast those votes in favor of keeping slavery. The Constitution is not counting blacks as 3/5 of a person, it is saying that slave owners casting the extra votes they had because they owned slaves, those votes would only count as 3/5 of a vote.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Larry	Feb 6 2016, 08:08 AM Post #19
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	I can't really fault Ax too much though, after all, he's a liberal democrat, and so much of what a liberal democrat has been taught to believe is wrong.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Copper	Feb 6 2016, 12:13 PM Post #20
Shortstop Posts: 29,907 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	Mikhailoh Feb 6 2016, 06:20 AM Jolly Feb 5 2016, 05:47 PM Of course it would be a mess. A glorious, politics-to-the-brim, power brokered mess. But the threat might actually be enough to make some wooden heads within the Beltway actually listen. Yep. Read "Tempest At Dawn" about the original constitutional convention. That was a mess, but the end product was and is a fine, fine framework. The issues they addressed there are just as timely today. Their motivation was Liberty or Death. The current bunch might not be as enlightened.
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


Aqua Letifer	Feb 6 2016, 12:15 PM Post #21
ZOOOOOM! Posts: 45,902 Group: Members Member #262 Joined: September 22, 2005	Jolly Feb 6 2016, 05:53 AM Get over the 10 state mark and suddenly it becomes rhetoric with bite. Words alone are never much good...As the guy with the big teeth said, "Talk softly and carry"...Well, you know the rest. No, it doesn't. A stupid metaphor is stupid regardless of how many states are involved.
	I cite irreconcilable differences.


Jolly	Feb 6 2016, 02:20 PM Post #22
Geaux Tigers! Posts: 47,617 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 19, 2005	Aqua Letifer Feb 6 2016, 12:15 PM Jolly Feb 6 2016, 05:53 AM Get over the 10 state mark and suddenly it becomes rhetoric with bite. Words alone are never much good...As the guy with the big teeth said, "Talk softly and carry"...Well, you know the rest. No, it doesn't. A stupid metaphor is stupid regardless of how many states are involved. Perhaps I'm just a wide-eyed innocent, but I've always found the most effective threat is one you can back up. An illustration that isn't necessarily within the realm of what we are talking about, but is somewhat appropriate...Knew of a case in Baton Rouge where a guy received an unmarked envelope in his mailbox. Inside the envelope, were a collection of pictures - the outside of his house, the interior of his house, pictures of his kids getting on the school bus, etc. Along with a newspaper clipping from an out of state newspaper, about a family that had been murdered in their own home. Yes, I realize that's a pretty brutal, nasty threat that doesn't translate entirely well to a discussion about a Constitutional Convention, but the point about the illustration, is that the man in the story knew the people who made the threat were entirely capable and willing to carry out the action. Perhaps, if the people within the Beltway knew that there was an actual, plausible drive to convene a Constitutional Convention, they might be more accepting of addressing the problems long before things reached such a serious conclusion.
	*The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.*- George Soros


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