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| Bring in the refugees! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 5 2016, 03:26 PM (4,612 Views) | |
| George K | Jan 10 2016, 10:42 AM Post #126 |
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Finally
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500 Unwanted "Guests" Stormed Nightclub in Bielefeld, Germany. Why, it's almost as though there was a plan.
Klaus, what's the mood in Germany these days? |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Larry | Jan 10 2016, 11:07 AM Post #127 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Nah, can't be anything planned. Individually, they're all nice people, you know... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Moonbat | Jan 10 2016, 11:37 AM Post #128 |
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Pisa-Carp
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But if that were true then there would be no attempt to draw significance to the events in Cologne. There would not be the dramatic focus on supposed negative social consequences of immigration. And there would be no banging the drum about the evils of that faceless and homogenous group of people known as 'muslims'. And yet there is.
We can always afford it, though sometimes there is a question of what if anything we would have to give up in order to do so. So the real question is whether the harm of taking such action outweighs the harm of not doing so. And the answer to that is trivial. The answer to that question (when it comes to crisis involving large numbers of people) is always trivial. The thing is the reason we don't see that it's trivial is because we don't weigh harm equally. We weight harm to us and our immediate family by many many orders of magnitude more than harm to anyone else and then we weight harm done to people we actually know (but are not family) and then we weight harm done to those we deem 'similar' to us in some abstract tribal sense and finally down on the lowest rung of consideration ladder we weight harm done to those we deem 'different'. We also spectacularly fail to deal with numbers. The total awfulness of human beings coping with numbers is difficult to overstate. When we hear about 100,000 refugees or say 12 million refugees it makes no difference to us. We are unable to comprehend these kinds of numbers so they get all smudged together into some kind generic picture of crisis. And then this generic category becomes less and less significant as we become over exposed to images of crisis in the media, until it's just another headline that we read on our way to work, and we care more about having milk in our coffee than the lives others. That's what it is to be human. To have a Homo Sapien brain.
They are just the stories some of the refugees. Real stories of real people. You don't think anyone needs them? I don't agree I think we all need them. (Because of the Homo Sapien brain thing) As for this true humanitarian stuff. I'm not claiming to be a humanitarian Copper true or otherwise, I'm not doing a damn thing for the refugees. I'm not lifting a finger to help them. I'm not trying to claim moral high ground - I'm doing what I always do engaging in the battle of ideas. |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Rainman | Jan 10 2016, 12:02 PM Post #129 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Moonbat, you lectured and pointed out your assessment regarding what our (1st-world) responsibilities are. OK, fine. I would be interested to hear your lecture to the refugees/migrants on what their responsibilities are. |
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| Axtremus | Jan 10 2016, 12:08 PM Post #130 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'll take a stab at it: 1. Obey the laws of the host host country 2. Respect the norms and customs of the host country 3. As soon as they are able and permitted to by the host country, become productive members of society in the host country |
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| Copper | Jan 10 2016, 12:10 PM Post #131 |
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Shortstop
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There are consequences for everything not just pocketbooks and personal safety. You can't deal with an unlimited number of animals however small the percentage that are animals might be. You can have extra police to bust their heads and lock them up or maybe you can have etiquette teachers to teach them how to behave in polite society or maybe some combination. But you can't just say the door is open to unlimited numbers, even if it makes you feel good. There has to be some real plan to deal with them. By the way, this is the same kind of thinking that doomed obamacare from the beginning. There was this idea that we could provide unlimited healthcare to everyone for free. There is still no plan to train and employ however many new doctors it takes to care for 11 million new healthcare consumers. The result is higher costs paid by those who can afford it and no real healthcare provided to those who need it - a loss for everyone involved. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Moonbat | Jan 10 2016, 12:28 PM Post #132 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Unlimited is irrelevant - there are a finite number of humans on Earth.
Sure it costs money to train more police, but then you'll have greater economic output anyway - don't migrants traditionally boost the economy? Of course you don't actually have to pay more police. You could just accept a higher crime rate. Like I said it's about balancing harm.
Fortunately you never have to because there are not unlimited numbers.
Was there an elaborate plan for dealing with all the Jews fleeing Nazi Germany? Clearly there is no requirement for a plan. Granted in order to assess what action to take you need to have some overview of likely outcomes but the maximum utility calculation looks so ridiculously lop-sided in these kinds of situations that the answer is trivial. |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Catseye | Jan 10 2016, 12:45 PM Post #133 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Moonbat. You're thinking too hard. You're concentrating so hard on refuting everything Copper and others have said that you're starting to contradict your ownself. I'm just ducking in here; you can comment on this if you like, but I've said all I want to on the subject. I just think you should maybe lie on a beach -- if you're below the Equator -- or on a couch, and let your true beliefs flow in, whatever they may be. It's too easy to get all tangled up until you don't know what to think. I say that as one who has been there. Just a friendly word. |
| "How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex | |
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| Rainman | Jan 10 2016, 12:55 PM Post #134 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Thanks, Ax. I'm curious: if you focus upon Germany and the 1,000,000+ refugees/migrants of 2015, what percentage do you think agree with your list, what percentage have no intent, desire, or ability to follow your basic requirements. BTW - I'm not trying to set you up for an argument. I think your basic list if fine. I agree. But, the old adage applies, "you can lead a horse to water, but. . . " |
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| Copper | Jan 10 2016, 01:22 PM Post #135 |
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Shortstop
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Of course there unlimited numbers because there are no limits under consideration. What are the limits? Are we over or under the limits? |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Moonbat | Jan 10 2016, 01:27 PM Post #136 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Hey Catseye, what did I say that was a contradiction? - perhaps I have explained myself poorly - wouldn't be the first time. I don't really agree with letting beliefs flow in. I think we have to work quite hard to avoid getting intuitive wrong answers. Best wishes. Mb |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| TomK | Jan 10 2016, 01:31 PM Post #137 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Moonbat, that is the most Christian post on this whole thread. (I meant that as a complement not as an instult. )
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| Moonbat | Jan 10 2016, 01:40 PM Post #138 |
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Pisa-Carp
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4 million refugees is a finite number of refugees. If you want me to do some calculations I can do them (if I can find time) but what point are you trying to make? What cost would you accept? Would you be happier if there was a figure - no matter what the figure actually was? |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Copper | Jan 10 2016, 01:44 PM Post #139 |
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Shortstop
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The question is what are the limits? Money is the simple and obvious one. What about all the systems needed to support these new residents? How many new police, fire, healthcare, housing, education, administrative and other people are needed? How long will it take to get them? How much food is needed? How long will it take to grow this food? Money is a consideration but you can just blow that off like the magic obamacare money. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Jolly | Jan 10 2016, 01:51 PM Post #140 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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...if he doesn't drink, you can always sit on his head and drown his arse... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Moonbat | Jan 10 2016, 02:35 PM Post #141 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Well I guess a base estimate is to just multiple the services by the change in population. Germany has 296 police men per 100,000 so if they want to keep the same ratio they'd end up hiring 2960 policemen. Of course that doesn't have to happen immediately. If Germany don't hire any extra police they'll go from 296 per hundred thousand to 292 per hundred thousand. (The UK has 227 police men per 100,000, France has 356. Source.. The beautiful thing about states being inefficient is that it means they have redundancy built into them. If the 4 million refugees were distributed amongst Europe and the US you would be adding 4 million people to a prexisting population of 743 + 318 (google) = 1.061 billion people. That equates to population change of 0.4%. You think that's going to cause social and economic collapse? |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Moonbat | Jan 10 2016, 02:36 PM Post #142 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Sometimes I think I might be Jesus.
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| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Larry | Jan 10 2016, 03:06 PM Post #143 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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You probably *are* the Jesus Tomk seems to be following... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Copper | Jan 10 2016, 03:50 PM Post #144 |
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Shortstop
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OK, that is some progress. Still, it is just a rough number with obvious bias. But if you worked at it I think you could understand that there are limits. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| TomK | Jan 10 2016, 05:20 PM Post #145 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I follow the one from the Bible-- Larry, you don't remember all of that stuff about loving your enemy and turning the other cheek? Or was that only for other people to follow?Remember this? “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Edited by TomK, Jan 10 2016, 05:29 PM.
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| Larry | Jan 10 2016, 05:31 PM Post #146 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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So.... where's the verse that says "Thou shalt shove thy head up thy ass and make foolish decisions"? |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Rainman | Jan 10 2016, 05:47 PM Post #147 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Was this written before that Mohammad guy laid down some new rules? Certainly it must have been written before New Years Eve. |
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| George K | Jan 12 2016, 06:10 AM Post #148 |
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Finally
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Your link is broken. Let's try this one:
So, if the rate of rapes has not changed, but the immigrants are 5.5 times more likely to be rapists, that means the Swedes are getting more polite. And don't forget the Italians, of course. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Copper | Jan 12 2016, 07:24 AM Post #149 |
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Shortstop
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Sorry, but country of origin must never be predictive of anything. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| George K | Feb 5 2016, 09:09 AM Post #150 |
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Finally
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-security-idUSKCN0VE0XL
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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Larry, you don't remember all of that stuff about loving your enemy and turning the other cheek? Or was that only for other people to follow?
4:46 PM Jul 10