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| Bring in the refugees! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 5 2016, 03:26 PM (4,614 Views) | |
| Catseye | Jan 8 2016, 11:09 AM Post #76 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Until Cologne this argument had a great deal of weight with me. I hesitated to condemn a vast number of people because of 'a few'. It doesn't carry weight any longer. I mean no disrespect to you when I say this, but that 'very small minority' is still a big enough number to be causing a lot of harm. Put that guy in Cologne who tore up his papers in the cop's face and said 'you can't touch me' together with the Quaddafi convo, and I've seen enough. How many times must we hear and see demonstrations of hate and destruction before we are convinced that the minority ain't all that tiny? I have begun to feel like a chump for supporting the mass because of a 'small minority'. That small minority is only the part that has made an appearance on the radar.
It's of a hella significance to those bereaved because of this 'very small minority's' rampages. |
| "How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex | |
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| jon-nyc | Jan 8 2016, 12:00 PM Post #77 |
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Cheers
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While i'll quibble with your numbers, that's a fair point. However, it doesn't follow that immigration policy should be set exclusively, or even primarily, by considerations of what is best for the potential immigrants. Especially not in a democracy. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Jolly | Jan 8 2016, 03:51 PM Post #78 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Then, shucks, hand one of those refugee dudes a AR-15 with a 40 rounder full of SS109, and tell him he won't be prosecuted for whatever he does with those 40 rounds. Even if he's a heckuva shot, and goes 40 for 40, 40 deaths are insignificant, since somewhere around 5,000,000 people die in Europe each year. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Copper | Jan 8 2016, 05:16 PM Post #79 |
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Shortstop
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Somewhere in this discussion there should be a question about our capacity to handle the refugees. I mean just plain physical and financial capacity. Don't we pay an army of bureaucrats to figure out things like this? I assume we will have to give away food, clothing and shelter and teach English language skills and expand other municipal services to handle this crowd. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Red Rice | Jan 8 2016, 07:00 PM Post #80 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I thought Moonbat's comment was telling. |
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Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool. I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss! - Cecil Lewis | |
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| Red Rice | Jan 8 2016, 07:01 PM Post #81 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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+1 |
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Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool. I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss! - Cecil Lewis | |
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| Renauda | Jan 8 2016, 08:49 PM Post #82 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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+2 |
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| bachophile | Jan 8 2016, 09:24 PM Post #83 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/new-year-crime_zurich-women-report-cologne-style-sex-attacks/41880556 and the Swiss have strict immigration laws. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Jolly | Jan 8 2016, 09:34 PM Post #84 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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It's amazing how few men can commit so many attacks. After all, my president told me that most of the refugees were widows and orphans. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Moonbat | Jan 9 2016, 04:56 AM Post #85 |
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Pisa-Carp
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I think it is pretty tiny - we don't receive information about people who are peaceful and non-threatening, they don't write news stories about them. As a result our instinctive impression about the kind of people involved is very skewed. If a million refugees fled to Germany and of them a thousand commit a crime that's 0.1% of the population. If there are 10 times more bad guys, 10,000 of them pouring across the German border. That's 1%. To put those numbers in perspective 121 women in Cologne were reported to have been robbed/threatened/sexually assaulted and he German authorities have identified 31 suspects for the Cologne attacks of which 18 are asylum seekers.
I do not mean to trivialise sexual assault, or robbery. I have no doubt that the victims underwent a horrific experience. The reason I asserted it's not significant, was because I think the alternative is orders of magnitude worse. The horror of pain and suffering does not depend on nationality, skin colour or religious affiliation. Surely when we consider these kinds of issues we should try and put aside our natural preference for people who look like us, or act like us, by shrugging off our zenophobic tendency to favour our own tribe we can ask what is better for the humans. For all of them. In this case, it seems to me that the harm caused by a relatively small number of criminals is outweighed by what is happening to the vast numbers of Syrians who have already been put through hell. |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Jolly | Jan 9 2016, 05:02 AM Post #86 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Sometimes, numbers don't tell the story. Not at all. In the American Revolutionary War, only about 25% of the population were committed Rebels. I think we know how that one turned out. When viewed through a normal lens, 137 sexual assaults within the defined time period is an astronomical increase over the usual, expected result. I don't care if the acts are perpetrated by 10 guys...If you hadn't let these people into the country willy-nilly and took the time to vet them properly, you wouldn't have had this problem. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Moonbat | Jan 9 2016, 05:18 AM Post #87 |
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Pisa-Carp
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I suspect vetting 'properly' is impossible given Syria is in the midst of a civil war. As such, we should not sacrifice millions to safeguard hundreds. |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Jolly | Jan 9 2016, 06:55 AM Post #88 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Wake up and smell the roses. Merkel's acceptance of refugees has as much to do with cheap labor for segments of the German economy as it does with providing safe haven for people escaping a war zone. If the German government (or the American) had wished to do so, there are a gazillion places in the Syrian region that could have housed the refugees safely in camps until their home area was pacified. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jan 9 2016, 09:27 AM Post #89 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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You keep setting up this straw man of sacrificing millions. I expect better from you than that kind of shallow thinking. With the Middle East in the shape it is, the Syrian refugees could quickly become a drop in the bucket. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| blondie | Jan 9 2016, 10:37 AM Post #90 |
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Bull-Carp
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I don't post much. My apologies. I'm busy. I've long said it: Boys raised in cultures where women are disrespected grow up to disrespect women. There's no changing this. Females are not valued. Paint me as bad, but this is my experience and opinion. My thoughts of immigration (I've said it before): Send us your girls and your women. Let your males stay so this culture of disrespect dies and rots. |
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| Rainman | Jan 9 2016, 10:59 AM Post #91 |
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Fulla-Carp
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I'm waiting for the article about the "peaceful muslims" that were in the crowd, that stepped in and tried to stop the assaults and robbery. Or some screen shots of cellphone messages condemning the attacks as they began instead of cellphone messages used to coordinate the attacks in various cities. As I mentioned in a post awhile back: add alcohol and see what happens. It's 2016! This isn't over of course, it's just the beginning. |
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| Catseye | Jan 9 2016, 11:56 AM Post #92 |
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Pisa-Carp
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I was looking to learn more about what Rainman said, and I found this: ----------------------------- ISIS fighters terrified of death at hands of female PKK warriors It's an Islamic State fighter's worst fear: to be killed by a woman. [From another article: That's because their beliefs teach that suicide missions lead to an afterlife of 72 virgins -- unless they're killed by a woman. Then, their afterlife is virgin-free, spent in the fiery furnaces of hell, a lawmaker told the New York Post.] "Everywhere they go they kill and do bad things in the name of Islam," Karhan said. "They captured a lot of women and they are selling them in Syria for $100. They rape women and behead them in the name of Islam." Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=101_1409890684&comments=1#DXT98DHu6GIbxmyW.99 -------------- Selling them in Syria, is it? Edited by Catseye, Jan 9 2016, 11:57 AM.
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| "How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex | |
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| Rainman | Jan 9 2016, 12:01 PM Post #93 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Thanks for the above, I had not heard this before. |
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| Catseye | Jan 9 2016, 12:09 PM Post #94 |
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Pisa-Carp
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Yeah . . . I've read in other places that these creeps are actually frightened of women. Don't know whether this fear is led by the afterlife thing, or if the afterlife thing, mastery over 72 women! wow! is supposedly payback for the awfulness of women while they were on earth. It's hard to ascribe logic to these screwballs. Meanwhile, where do I sign up?
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| "How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jan 9 2016, 12:10 PM Post #95 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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So, like if the woman kills them they have to marry her? |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Copper | Jan 9 2016, 12:19 PM Post #96 |
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Shortstop
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We should let them know there is a decent chance the bombs killing them were dropped by female pilots. That goes for both real airplanes and drones. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Moonbat | Jan 9 2016, 02:57 PM Post #97 |
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Pisa-Carp
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What do you think should be done? A little money raising? Perhaps we should send the millions of people trying to escape a war zone some extra sweaters? Here are some of the stories from the photographer who runs http://www.humansofnewyork.com/. No doubt they are subject to some selection bias but they at least offer a human picture to the the notion of a syrian refugee. ![]() "My parents were supportive of my education, but they didn’t direct me. My father was a farmer and my mother was a housewife. They did not know much about science. But I was determined to become a scientist through my own personal will. I graduated high school with the third highest scores in all of Syria. I worked construction in the evenings to pay for my school. Even as a teenager, I was being given construction sites to manage. I graduated from university at the top of my class. I was given a scholarship to pursue my PhD. I suffered for my dream. I gave everything. If I had 100 liras, I would spend it on a book. My ultimate goal was to become a great scientist and make a lasting contribution to humanity." ![]() "Our marriage wasn’t arranged. We married out of love. We met when we were students at university. She was studying law. We built a family together. We were a very modern family. We had good days and bad days and rich days and poor days but we were always together. We ate every meal together and educated our children well. My daughter was studying to be a doctor. My son was the smartest in his school. We were well known in the community. Nobody had a problem with us. We had no affiliation with any party or regime. Everyone loved us, honestly." ![]() "I built this compound for my family. I saved the money for it, I designed it myself, and I oversaw the construction. The first missile tore through the yellow house and exploded inside the pink house. It was a government anti-personnel missile. They are not supposed to be used in residential areas. Inside were 116 small bombs, and each bomb was filled with needles and shrapnel. The pink house belonged to my brother and his entire family was torn to pieces. The second missile landed in the green house but did not explode. That was my house. If the missile had exploded, I wouldn’t have any children left. But it only destroyed the top floor where my wife and daughter were. Sixteen people died in the attack. Seven were from my family." ![]() I was overseeing a project outside the city when the missile hit my house. Nobody was around to help, so my son had to carry the pieces of his mother and sister out of the house. He was fourteen at the time. He was so smart. He was the top of his class. He’s not the same. Right after it happened, he’d write ‘mom’ in his notebook over and over. He’d cry all night long. Two years have passed but he’s still suffering very much. It’s very hard for him to focus. He gets tired very easily. My daughter was in the house too. She still has shrapnel in her neck. We survived but we’re dead psychologically. Everything ended for us that day. That was our destiny. That was our share in life.” ![]() Everything that wasn’t destroyed in our house was stolen over the next two days. We left with nothing. I can’t even pay the rent of this apartment. I’ve been in Turkey for two years now. I’m dead here. I have no life, no respect, and my children aren’t going to school. I have a PhD but I’m not allowed to work without a residence permit. There is a university here that is teaching with a book I wrote, but still won’t give me a job. In order to survive, I’m forced to create designs and give them away to Turkish citizens, who take all the credit and pay me barely enough money to cover the costs of my materials. This year I created blueprints for a giant construction project of 270 big houses. I was paid maybe one percent of what a Turkish citizen would have earned. There is no respect for my work here. Only money is respected ![]() I had no problems before the bombing. I think the cancer came from my sadness and my stress. It’s in my stomach. It’s getting more and more painful. The only reason I can speak to you right now is because I’ve taken a painkiller. I can barely eat. I’m bleeding internally. I’ve gone to five hospitals here. They tell me there’s nothing they can do, especially because I have no insurance and no benefits. My friend in America tells me that it’s an easy surgery, but I’m fighting against time. It’s spreading, and I think that soon it will move beyond my stomach. And then there’s nothing I can do. ![]() I still think I have a chance to make a difference in the world. I have several inventions that I’m hoping to patent once I get to America. One of my inventions is being used right now on the Istanbul metro to generate electricity from the movement of the train. I have sketches for a plane that can fly for 48 hours without fuel. I’ve been thinking about a device that can predict earthquakes weeks before they happen. I just want a place to do my research. I learned today that I’m going to Troy, Michigan. I know nothing about it. I just hope that it’s safe and that it’s a place where they respect science. I just want to get back to work. I want to be a person again. I don’t want the world to think I’m over. I’m still here. ![]() "I was the only doctor in the area, so when ISIS captured our town, I knew that they would ask me to work for them. We should have left right away. One night five men came to our house. They were wearing masks and they refused to take off their shoes. Their Arabic was not with a Syrian accent. They claimed to be searching for weapons and went from room to room. They knew about me already, because they kept calling me 'Doctor.' When they finished searching the house, they arrested my husband. It was a night in January, so it was too cold for them to start their car. The engine kept turning over and over. I thought that maybe a miracle would keep them from taking him. But then I heard the engine start and they drove away. I paced in the street all night. At one point I heard a gunshot in the distance, and I thought for sure they had killed him. I thought it was all my fault. We should have left right away." ![]() ISIS needs educated people to support them. None of them finished school. They cannot manage the cities they capture because they have no skills. When they took me to prison, at first they were very aggressive. They kept putting a gun to my head and taking it away. But after a few minutes of this, one of the men began speaking to me in a very nice way. He said: ‘You are an Islamic man. Please, be a good Muslim and help us. We want your wife to open a hospital for us. And we want you to manage it.’ I agreed to everything they asked. I told them I would help. Then the moment they let me go home, we packed our bags and left. We’ve been waiting for two years now. We’ve been through all our interviews. Last week this letter came and said that we’ve been ‘deferred.’ I’m not even sure what that means. We were very truthful about everything. We have nothing left in Syria. I want to continue working as a doctor in America. Here my hands are tied. Refugees are not allowed to work. I don’t have papers. I can’t communicate with anyone. I worked my entire life to become a doctor. I did nothing but study for six years. I didn’t even have a hobby. Now I’m doing nothing. I’m losing hope. I’ve started to wonder if it would have been better for us to go the illegal way across the sea.![]() The whole purpose of my trip to Turkey and Jordan was to interview refugees who had been approved for American resettlement. So when this couple showed me the letter saying they’d been 'deferred,' I was a bit confused. But I continued the interview anyway. As I learned the rest of the couple’s story, I noticed my UNHCR facilitator typing on her phone. After a few minutes, she came over to me and showed me the screen. It was a text message from the main office. It said: 'They've been approved. Would you care to tell them?' So it was my great honor to inform this couple that they were going to America. This portrait was taken thirty seconds after they learned the news. ![]() "I had a very brilliant teacher in elementary school. She was my role model. I don’t remember deciding to be a teacher so much as I remember deciding that I wanted to be just like her. My whole life became about studying. I’d learn every lesson early so that I could participate in class. When my siblings were playing games around the house, I’d plug my ears and work on my homework. Education was my passion. It was all I thought about. I didn’t even want to get married. I finished at the top of my class in both high school and university. I got a scholarship to pursue my Masters at a German university. Then I met a man who was very supportive of me going to school, so I decided to marry. But four months later he was killed in a car accident. And I was pregnant." ![]() "I knew immediately after my husband’s death that I would have to let go of my dreams. I fell into a deep depression. I was going to be a single mother so I’d have to focus everything on raising my child. I thought that I would never be able to do anything in my life again. I skipped the orientation for the German university. I missed my German language lessons. Everything seemed to be slipping away. I gave birth to my daughter and moved in with my parents. When I saw my daughter, I realized that I needed to get my life back on track. She’d already lost her father. I didn’t want her to lose her mother too. So I enrolled at the University of Damascus and continued with my studies. I graduated once again at the top of my class. I began to work as a professor while I applied for my PhD. My daughter was getting bigger. Everything seemed to be getting back on track. Then the war came." ![]() "Because I’m a refugee, my life is on pause. My studies have stopped. I’m not working. I don’t have a career. Because I’m Syrian, I’m not allowed to participate in society. It’s been years of doing nothing. I used to be a cheerful person. I was always invited to parties. Now I like to be alone. I’ve become more nervous and aggressive. I yell over silly things. I just want to start my life again. I learned last Thursday that I’m going to a state called North Carolina. I’m very nervous. I know nothing about it. More than anything, I want to finish my education. But mostly I hope that whatever is waiting for me there is better than what I’ve gone through." ![]() "Doesn’t she look like an American? The lady who did our interview said that she looks like an American. She’s very excited. She’s young, so I know she’ll be able to learn English very easily. She’s a very smart girl. She’s already decided exactly what her room will look like in North Carolina. She won’t stop talking about it. She says that she’s going to do a lot of swimming and learn how to use the computer. Someone at her school told her that kids in America can do whatever they want and never get yelled at. So whenever I try to punish her, she tells me: 'That won’t be allowed in America.'" ![]() "I want to be a professor that examines the bones of dinosaurs because I like dinosaurs a lot. I also want to have a dinosaur but I know that’s impossible. I love to go to Google and type: ‘Nice dinosaur movies.’ But that uses a lot of the phone so I don’t get to do that too much. One day I’m going to open a museum full of dinosaur bones. I’m not sure where I’ll find the bones. Probably America and France. Look at this invention we made. We’ve made a lot of inventions. You can make really good things out of stuff you don’t need. We made an alien out of a speaker that we found in the trash, and then we made a person out of milk cartons, and we turned our trash can into a dinosaur because I love dinosaurs." ![]() "When I was in second grade, our school got attacked by a bomb. It was a barrel full of explosions. We were just opening our books to start the class and it’s hard to describe the sound but it was like a building coming apart. I ran to the other class to find my brother and he was crying because of the sound. Our bus left so we didn't know what to do. But my brother is so smart. He ran to the market and called our grandma." ![]() I was at home when the telephone rang. It was my mother. She told me that there had been a bomb at the boys' school. I immediately tried to call the school but nobody answered. Then I tried to call the bus driver but he didn’t answer either. I imagined the worst. The roads were closed so I couldn’t get to the school. All I could do was pace around the house. Finally the bus driver answered the phone and said that everyone was alive. The bomb had landed on the playground and only destroyed one wall of the school. After several hours the roads were reopened, and they came back home. When I hugged them it felt like the whole world was in my hands. ![]() "We are going to a place called Clearwater, Florida. I don’t know a lot about it. I saw Florida on the television and it looks like it’s close to the sea and has a lot of plants. My dad says the people are friendly and there are a lot of friendly kids there. I really hope that we can have a small farm and a horse when we get there because my grandmother really loves animals. I’d like it to be a square farm with lots of flowers and rabbits. I also hope there is a good tree in Florida because I’d like to build a tree house where we can have some adventures." |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Moonbat | Jan 9 2016, 03:14 PM Post #98 |
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Pisa-Carp
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You're don;t get stories about peaceful actions because they aren't the kind of stories that sell papers. And alcohol? Are you kidding? Have you ever actually met a muslim? Had a conversation? Had lunch? |
| Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem | |
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| Jolly | Jan 9 2016, 03:42 PM Post #99 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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A story: http://photos.state.gov/libraries/hochiminh/646441/vantt/The%20Cold%20Equations.pdf |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| John D'Oh | Jan 9 2016, 03:43 PM Post #100 |
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MAMIL
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I have to wonder if the people who say the things they say have actually spent any time with people who happen to be Muslims - to the point at which they stop thinking of them primarily in terms of their religion, but rather as just people. I've decided to stop posting in these threads as they depress me. I'm also a bit worried I might say something I'll regret. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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We’ve been waiting for two years now. We’ve been through all our interviews. Last week this letter came and said that we’ve been ‘deferred.’ I’m not even sure what that means. We were very truthful about everything. We have nothing left in Syria. I want to continue working as a doctor in America. Here my hands are tied. Refugees are not allowed to work. I don’t have papers. I can’t communicate with anyone. I worked my entire life to become a doctor. I did nothing but study for six years. I didn’t even have a hobby. Now I’m doing nothing. I’m losing hope. I’ve started to wonder if it would have been better for us to go the illegal way across the sea.









4:46 PM Jul 10