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Bring in the refugees!
Topic Started: Jan 5 2016, 03:26 PM (4,616 Views)
brenda
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..............
Piano*Dad
Jan 6 2016, 07:14 AM
brenda
Jan 6 2016, 06:34 AM
Well, if Ax doesn't care that the women were attacked, so be it. I don't expect to change him.
..and just why do you feel the need to twist what he says. Does it make you feel better? Sorry, I'm not feeling charitable toward the typical Internet joust and thrust.
I felt words were being put into my mouth, PD.

All I expressed in my first post was concern for the women who were attacked. I don't know how that got interpreted as some comment on refugees, but it seems to have done that.

I'll bow out of this thread, since I don't seem to be able to make my point clear.

Carry on, folks.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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brenda
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..............
Ax, I apologize for thinking you were not understanding. I saw the article, and the entire reported incident, as evidence of the women's safety and rights being violated. That's all I was saying. I'm sorry.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
You don't owe him an apology. The entire point of your original post was to discuss the women who were being attacked. Ax immediately shifted it to demanding we talk about the men who committed the crimes, while refusing to even consider the women.

That showed quite clearly that he could have cared less about the victims in this story, and you had every right to say so. If PD didn't get that, that's his problem.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Nobody's Sock
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Fulla-Carp
No , we all got it Larry, except you. You added 2 and 2 and got 5 again. Your continual ax to grind on Ax is lame. You are a broken record. Blah blah blah.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Ah, blow it out your ass.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Nobody's Sock
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Larry
Jan 6 2016, 07:45 AM
Ah, blow it out your ass.
I haven't learned that technique yet, but I am learning from the best here. :wave:
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Then let me get you started.. in your case, before you blow it out your ass, you'll need to find a crow bar and pry your head out of it.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Brenda, thank you, though in all fairness the apology is not needed (and I never thought I was owed one in the first place).

Now I will explain to you why I responded to your post the way I did.

Concern for women's safety and rights are good. Had you wrote "female safety and rights matter ...," I would not have responded except in agreement. For that would have been obvious, relevant (to the opening post), and non-controversial.

But you chose to use the "Black Lives Matter" meme. That raised a "does not compute" flag in my mind because, as far as I can tell, no female life was lost over the incidents reported in Germany. The Black Live Matter meme came about because black lives were lost. Had you use that meme in another context, say in another thread that talks about female infanticide or radical Islamic extremists beheading women for petty religious offenses (or anything where females lose their lives for being females), then the "female lives matter" meme would have made sense.

In the context set by the opening post, of the different groups of people being talked about, the only group whose "lives" are threatened is the refugee group -- some of the refugees have lost their lives making the trek as refugees. And the way this thread is titled and where the discussion was going, it seems the refugees were blamed for the incidents reported in Germany (without evidence, I might add), and this is being used as rhetoric to reject refugees. What's going to happen when refugees are rejected? More refugee lives will be lost, that's what.

So if we're going to use the Black Lives Matter meme, then its only proper that it be applied to the group that suffered life losses and would stand to lose even more lives if the civil discourse don't turn out the right way -- that group is the refugees. Hence the importance of the question: Do refugee lives matter, too?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jan 6 2016, 07:41 AM
Ax immediately shifted it to demanding we talk about the men who committed the crimes, while refusing to even consider the women.

That showed quite clearly that he could have cared less about the victims in this story, ...
Actually, all that sentiment was baked into the thread title.
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brenda
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..............
Axtremus
Jan 6 2016, 08:35 AM
Brenda, thank you, though in all fairness the apology is not needed (and I never thought I was owed one in the first place).

Now I will explain to you why I responded to your post the way I did.

Concern for women's safety and rights are good. Had you wrote "female safety and rights matter ...," I would not have responded except in agreement. For that would have been obvious, relevant (to the opening post), and non-controversial.

But you chose to use the "Black Lives Matter" meme. That raised a "does not compute" flag in my mind because, as far as I can tell, no female life was lost over the incidents reported in Germany. The Black Live Matter meme came about because black lives were lost. Had you use that meme in another context, say in another thread that talks about female infanticide or radical Islamic extremists beheading women for petty religious offenses (or anything where females lose their lives for being females), then the "female lives matter" meme would have made sense.

In the context set by the opening post, of the different groups of people being talked about, the only group whose "lives" are threatened is the refugee group -- some of the refugees have lost their lives making the trek as refugees. And the way this thread is titled and where the discussion was going, it seems the refugees were blamed for the incidents reported in Germany (without evidence, I might add), and this is being used as rhetoric to reject refugees. What's going to happen when refugees are rejected? More refugee lives will be lost, that's what.

So if we're going to use the Black Lives Matter meme, then its only proper that it be applied to the group that suffered life losses and would stand to lose even more lives if the civil discourse don't turn out the right way -- that group is the refugees. Hence the importance of the question: Do refugee lives matter, too?
Sorry for not phrasing it in a way that you could accept. It doesn't require a death for me to see it as appropriate use of the phrase that women's lives matter. Even in our modern age, there are large groups of people attacking women. I'm still finding it hard to believe this is going on in a modern city in our lifetime. I cannot imagine that women have to be in fear of violent mobs in any German city in 2016.

What led me astray was your early post of "Zero evidence that any of the perpetrator is a refugee, and already you all conclude that they are refugees." You included me in that line.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Rainman
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Fulla-Carp
Quote:
 
Axtremus:
Do you think it really matters whether it's the government or some other NGO that offered the sponsorship or the employment? I don't.


Well, we are on different wavelengths, to be sure.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I think it is a huge difference. Our increasing dependence on government to do that which we do not want to do ourselves will be our undoing.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Ax, I mean this sincerely.

If you think what you wrote made a lick of sense.. if you actually think what you wrote is in *any* way rational... I truly feel sorry for you.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
OK, let me put this another way. The offenders were Arabic type men, in any event NOT ethnic Germans. It is not a stretch to say they were Muslims. We may not not know for sure, but we can count on being right 95% or so. Close enough for rock and roll.

Now, stay with me because here is where it gets tricky...


Are you with me?


OK...the REFUGEES are ARABS/MUSLIMS TOO! Aha! See what I did there? This is the kind of behavior we can reasonably expect of them as well. Is that what you want? I sure as hell would not if I were German.

It's really not nearly as complicated as you try to make it.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Catseye
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Pisa-Carp
Quote:
 
The offenders were Arabic type men, in any event NOT ethnic Germans. It is not a stretch to say they were Muslims ... the REFUGEES are ARABS/MUSLIMS TOO! Aha! See what I did there? This is the kind of behavior we can reasonably expect of them as well.


The admittedly one and only source I read on this contained a quote from a chief cop who said, they had an Arabic or Northern Africa appearance. Maybe more is known by now, but 'had an Arabic/Northern African appearance' is a far cry from for-certain Arabs/Muslims. Men who look like Arabs could be Turks, Italians or Greeks.

Truly I'm not stretching to make Arabs not be the bad guys. I have no such dog in the hunt. It is what it is. But when I see a patchwork of innuendo and/or half-assed 'eyewitness' reports that pass for news, I'm reluctant to assume anything.

I had another belated thought. If this whole horrible imbroglio was a coordinated effort, why on earth would the guilty parties be refugees? Why would any refugee with half a brain go out of his way to crap all over a country which is bending over backwards to help them? Sooner I'd believe that the perpetrators were hirelings sicced on the women in order to besmirch the refugees. Either to make Merkle look bad -- which seems doubtful because that's just nuts -- or to turn the people against the refugees in order to get rid of them.

And Mik, did you really mean to say that 'we can reasonably expect assault from Muslims or Arabs'? Reasonably?
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Jan 6 2016, 12:29 PM
OK, let me put this another way. The offenders were Arabic type men, in any event NOT ethnic Germans. It is not a stretch to say they were Muslims. We may not not know for sure, but we can count on being right 95% or so. Close enough for rock and roll.

Now, stay with me because here is where it gets tricky...


Are you with me?


OK...the REFUGEES are ARABS/MUSLIMS TOO! Aha! See what I did there? This is the kind of behavior we can reasonably expect of them as well. Is that what you want? I sure as hell would not if I were German.

It's really not nearly as complicated as you try to make it.
So this is what it is for you, an opportunity to point fingers at Arabs and Muslims. Condemn every "Arabic type" man. Is that it?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Piano*Dad
Jan 6 2016, 07:14 AM
brenda
Jan 6 2016, 06:34 AM
Well, if Ax doesn't care that the women were attacked, so be it. I don't expect to change him.
..and just why do you feel the need to twist what he says. Does it make you feel better? Sorry, I'm not feeling charitable toward the typical Internet joust and thrust.
You can't lay a wall with just one brick.

But...if you are familiar with every brick, you know a lot about the wall.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Axtremus
Jan 6 2016, 01:04 PM
Mikhailoh
Jan 6 2016, 12:29 PM
OK, let me put this another way. The offenders were Arabic type men, in any event NOT ethnic Germans. It is not a stretch to say they were Muslims. We may not not know for sure, but we can count on being right 95% or so. Close enough for rock and roll.

Now, stay with me because here is where it gets tricky...


Are you with me?


OK...the REFUGEES are ARABS/MUSLIMS TOO! Aha! See what I did there? This is the kind of behavior we can reasonably expect of them as well. Is that what you want? I sure as hell would not if I were German.

It's really not nearly as complicated as you try to make it.
So this is what it is for you, an opportunity to point fingers at Arabs and Muslims. Condemn every "Arabic type" man. Is that it?
I knew I would lose you. I just knew it.

No, not every one. But you cannot claim that it is a culture that respects women. So when you see things like this and say 'Yeah! Give me more of THAT!', well, you cannot say you didn't know.


The parallels to Rome are pretty striking.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Moonbat
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Pisa-Carp
Mikhailoh
Jan 6 2016, 12:29 PM
OK, let me put this another way. The offenders were Arabic type men, in any event NOT ethnic Germans. It is not a stretch to say they were Muslims. We may not not know for sure, but we can count on being right 95% or so. Close enough for rock and roll.

Now, stay with me because here is where it gets tricky...


Are you with me?


OK...the REFUGEES are ARABS/MUSLIMS TOO! Aha! See what I did there? This is the kind of behavior we can reasonably expect of them as well. Is that what you want? I sure as hell would not if I were German.

It's really not nearly as complicated as you try to make it.
Of the 500,000 Arabs that live in Germany, a small number (how many?) have committed crimes therefore we should not help the people from Syria who have had their lives destroyed by a terrible civil war.

And this is justified because it might be true that the majority of these two very different sets of people might both self identify with the word 'muslim'?

Mik, I believe you are a much better man, than the words you have written here.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Catseye
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Mik, I believe you are a much better man, than the words you have written here.


Yep, yep, yep. :)
"How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
No, no I am not. Each day a culture that does not assimilate but keeps its own ways and harbors age old resentments grows in the west, by immigration and reproduction. As its political power grows you will see further demands that you and your children submit to their ways. If you cannot see that you have not been looking. It will not be enough to live and let live.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Jan 6 2016, 02:06 PM
No, no I am not. Each day a culture that does not assimilate but keeps its own ways and harbors age old resentments grows in the west, by immigration and reproduction. As its political power grows you will see further demands that you and your children submit to their ways. If you cannot see that you have not been looking. It will not be enough to live and let live.
I would respectfully disagree. America for all our faults is better than whatever nationality of belief system that happens to come down the pike and wants in. After two hundred years they are still coming HERE.

They'll always be a generation that wants to go back to the "old country" and keep its ways. But eventually they stay and become American and make America a better place.

That's just the kind of place America is.

Have faith.

(And I didn't read the thread--I'm just responding to your last post.)
Edited by TomK, Jan 6 2016, 02:20 PM.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
You mean like in France? That kind of assimilation?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427302/frances-fifth-column-muslims-resist-assimilation
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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TomK
HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Jan 6 2016, 02:25 PM
You mean like in France? That kind of assimilation?
Honestly, I don't know about France. I do have an issue there. But in America assimilation is a way of life. I
could take your point of view but I'm Polish American and I'm assimilated, or at least my parents were. How could I possibly deny to others in all fairness the opportunities that were afforded me.

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Good god.....
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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