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| Le't's talk sump pumps | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 7 2015, 07:38 AM (379 Views) | |
| Luke's Dad | Aug 7 2015, 07:38 AM Post #1 |
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Emperor Pengin
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Backup sump pumps and alarms to be specific. I'm considering a backup pump for the house, but I'm worried about going with one that uses backup batteries. I've heard too many stories of batteries failing while somebody was on vacation or people claiming that they had checked their batteries 2 months prior and they were fine but then... So as an alternative, I'm considering a water powered backup. Anybody have one of these and have you had occasion for it to function? Thoughts? Also, do any of you have one of those alarms that will send you a text or call you if power is out and/or water level is rising? |
| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| John Galt | Aug 7 2015, 08:00 AM Post #2 |
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Fulla-Carp
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We had a Zoeller water-powered backup sump pump (the model prior to their current design). It was made of cheapish plastic. The first one broke (the plumber had hooked it up wrong) and we replaced it ourselves (easy to do because the plumbing was in place) with the same model. The float/water valve mechanism was not very reliable. We had situations where the valve wouldn't open to power the pump, and we and our neighbors both had times when the valve wouldn't close, so the water just kept running and running till we jiggled the float to shut it off. And it was possible for the valve to be ever so slightly open so that you couldn't hear the water running. That happened to our friends; they only figured it out when they got a huge water bill. There are some models made of brass, I think. Don't know if the reliability is better. When I researched them last year, I remember no being impressed; it sounded like they had the same problems as our Zoeller, plus we would have had to have a plumber come in to sweat copper pipe for the water hookup. We could install a battery system ourselves. We have a bunch of neighbors who have higher end battery backup systems, and as long as you check the battery for water and replace it on a regular schedule (they're only good for 3 to 5 years on average), I think a battery system is the way to go. We ended up with a Basement Watchdog Big Dog. Couple of neighbors had good luck with it; we've only had ours for a year. We check the water in the battery every couple of months and we every so often we unplug the main pump and let the backup take over when we do laundry (our washer empties into the same pit as the groundwater - it's a 1960s configuration). Someone else has the Zoeller Aquanot and it's operated flawlessly for 15 years (batteries replaced every 3 years). As with any backup system, the key to success is testing it regularly in non-emergency situations. This site has lots of good info and reviews. They carry the higher end stuff that will notify you if the power is out and/or if there is a malfunction in your backup system. A very reliable but expensive system is the SUMPRO Gold, though it doesn't have the notification feature. http://www.sumppumpsdirect.com/ Edited by John Galt, Aug 7 2015, 08:03 AM.
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| Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 7 2015, 08:03 AM Post #3 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I had never heard of the water powered sump pump backups before, have a battery one. I'm not a physicist, but I am not sure how it works that one gallon of municipal water pumped in can create enough vacuum to lift itself and two more gallons of water from the sump 6-8' to discharge. Can somebody 'splain this to me? |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| JBryan | Aug 7 2015, 08:07 AM Post #4 |
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I am the grey one
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Sounds like perpetual motion to me. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| John Galt | Aug 7 2015, 08:07 AM Post #5 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Gotta run, but google Venturi effect. |
| Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness. | |
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| JBryan | Aug 7 2015, 08:12 AM Post #6 |
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I am the grey one
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I don't see how venture effect explains how you do work with no external source of power. It sounds like we are saying the pump powers itself by pumping. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| John Galt | Aug 7 2015, 08:16 AM Post #7 |
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Fulla-Carp
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All I can tell you is that it does work. The failure point for the system, as I've pointed out above, is the reliability of the valve that controls the flow of city water. Oh, and of course you have to be sure that your municipal water pressure is at or above the minimum required by the equipment manufacturer. Typically I don't think that's a problem. Edited by John Galt, Aug 7 2015, 08:17 AM.
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| Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 7 2015, 08:18 AM Post #8 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Venturi is a siphon essentially, much like a toilet. The physics just don't add up to me. It is saying the water produces more energy than the force of its motion, which does not compute. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| JBryan | Aug 7 2015, 08:23 AM Post #9 |
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I am the grey one
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It takes energy to do the work of lifting a gallon of water from point A to a point somewhere above. That energy cannot come from the act of lifting that water. If the water needs to flow downhill that is another matter but for that you do not need a pump. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| John Galt | Aug 7 2015, 08:30 AM Post #10 |
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Fulla-Carp
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds21daLDcK8 Theorists: I don't see how that can work. DIY homeowner: My sump pit is getting emptied by this contraption.
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| Let us begin anew, remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness. | |
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| big al | Aug 7 2015, 10:28 AM Post #11 |
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Bull-Carp
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You need to learn a little more physics. In a nutshell, the water powered pump is converting the high pressure of the city water supply to flow at a lower pressure (in effect exchanging say 30 feet of static head for 6 feet of dynamic lift). Steam locomotive injectors worked on a somewhat similar principal, using boiler steam to propel water into the boiler, but they were even harder to understand physically because they used steam at boiler pressure to force water into the same boiler. They worked because of the thermodynamics of converting the heat in the steam to kinetic energy in the water. This Wikipedia entry provides some details. Big Al Edited by big al, Aug 7 2015, 11:33 AM.
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| jon-nyc | Aug 7 2015, 10:29 AM Post #12 |
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Cheers
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Sounds like it runs off of water pressure from the city source. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Horace | Aug 7 2015, 11:06 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yes, one gets that impression.
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| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 7 2015, 05:45 PM Post #14 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Witchcraft. You'll all burn. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| JBryan | Aug 8 2015, 06:30 AM Post #15 |
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I am the grey one
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Okay, that makes sense. There is still an external power source by virtue the city's water pressure. What was being described sounded like a closed system where the energy doing the pumping was derived from the pumping itself. That cannot work. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| JBryan | Aug 8 2015, 06:31 AM Post #16 |
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I am the grey one
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Al, really? I need to learn more physics? |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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