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| not crying for cecil the lion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 5 2015, 06:16 AM (483 Views) | |
| bachophile | Aug 5 2015, 06:16 AM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage®ion=CColumn&module=MostEmailed&version=Full&src=me&WT.nav=MostEmailed i thought this was an interesting perspective. not that i advocate rich americans going to kill wildlife, but i think this shows the other side of the equation |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| George K | Aug 5 2015, 06:30 AM Post #2 |
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Finally
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An interesting read from someone who has some insight. "We don't name our lions." No shit. A blogger posted another perspective - long but worth a read, because it points out the big picture of conservation in light of "hunting."
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Klaus | Aug 5 2015, 06:46 AM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I do buy the economic argument in favor of trophy hunting. But that doesn't change the ethical consideration of whether it is OK to fly into a foreign country and contribute little more to hunting an animal than pulling the trigger. The ability to earn money by prostitution is also improving the life of many people, but that doesn't make the Johns any less despicable. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 5 2015, 06:47 AM Post #4 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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'Gary the Gazelle'
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Jolly | Aug 5 2015, 11:14 AM Post #5 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Several years ago, I flew into Northern Canada - about as far north as you can go without stepping into the arctic ocean, and went on a week long caribou hunt. By Canadian law, my outfitter had to be majority First Peoples owned, which it was. Money I spent in Montreal and in Kuujjuaq, especially the latter, was dollars the Canadians would not have seen without my hunt. My guide (a B&C top ten listee) was one of an entire (New Foundland) family who made their yearly living working in the hunting and fishing camps. I was just one guy and I probably didn't kick around more than $5K, or so. But multiply me by several thousand hunters or fishermen, and all the sudden, we're talking about real money. Now, I'm going to refer you to a map of Kuujjuaq: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuujjuaq No offense, but how in the sugar are you going to make a living up there, if not off of the local wildlife? Farm? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Copper | Aug 5 2015, 11:24 AM Post #6 |
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Shortstop
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Kind of like contributing no more to driving a car than stepping on the accelerator. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Mikhailoh | Aug 5 2015, 11:47 AM Post #7 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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You were up in my family's neck of the woods, Jolly, Newfoundland. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Jolly | Aug 5 2015, 02:06 PM Post #8 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Actually, I was up in Northern Quebec, but the family that was running our base camp were all from Newfoundland. Their last name was MacDonald, and they were some of the toughest people I've ever met. They lived in a small town/village on the coast that had no complete roads leading in or out, but they did have roads to a few of the neighboring settlements. The family was pooling their money to buy a family vehicle - one vehicle for the father and his wife, two sons and their wives. They didn't consider hunting much of a sport, at least not the way their paying clients did it...The father explained to me, the best way to hunt moose - Ya wait fer the first big honkin' snow, then you run 'im down with the snowmobile and use a shotgun to put 'im down. Whilst we be fetching a moose, the gals will be at the chalet, catching enough fish fer the winter. We smoke the fish and hang the moose in the outside shed. Of course, they had caribou meat, too. They didn't own a rifle, just a shotgun they used for ptarmigan, so since I was the first guy in camp to limit out, I let the oldest boy have my rifle to fill his tags. But since the outfitter charged them to transport their meat out, they usually only killed a couple and boned them out. They had a very small store in their village, but also bought quite a few things off the grocery boat that came to call around once a month, except in winter...in winter, the Canadian government had to use an icebreaker to lead the grocery boat, so it may not dock but a couple of times. They seemed like a happy, hard-working bunch. Kinda gruff, very direct, no BS. I really liked them. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| jon-nyc | Aug 5 2015, 02:08 PM Post #9 |
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Cheers
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Interesting. How long ago did you make the trip? |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Klaus | Aug 6 2015, 02:41 AM Post #10 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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How in the sugar are you going to make a living in a favela in Brazil, if not by prostitution? Drugs? I'm not blaming those who offer the hunting opportunities, just as I don't blame the hookers. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Jolly | Aug 6 2015, 04:42 AM Post #11 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Over ten years ago. I used Safari Nordik as my outfitter, but I understand they aren't what they used to be. A caribou hunt is not as strenuous as a Rocky Mountain elk hunt. You're hunting hilly country and you can glass a long way. It's a lot of walk to that hill over there, then set up and glass for thirty minutes, then walk to the next picked hill. Later in the year, when I went (the best bulls are late), you'd catch small groups of anywhere from two or three to maybe twenty migrating back down. Once you see them, you have to try to cut them off in time to get a shot. An average day would be 10-15 miles walking, with frequent glassing stops. Weather is almost constant mist, rain, sleet or snow. You need some very comfortable, waterproof boots, good gore-tex hunting gear with a hood, a wool sweater and some lightweight thermal underwear that wicks extremely well. I like to hunt in wool watch hats, and that worked pretty well. Glass was a pair of 10x Nikon Monarchs and odds and neds got stuffed into a standard daypack. You need a rifle that will reach. I used the smallest caliber in our hunting group. We had guys with 7mm mags, .300 mags and .338 mags. I was shooting my favorite .270, but it's handloaded to 7 mag velocities with solid copper Barnes bullets. I had no trouble, and one animal I shot was a bit over two hundred yards, but I still managed to break two ribs on the entrance wound and broke the shoulder on the way out. I have never recovered a Barnes bullet from that rifle, which is good - I like a hole going in and one going out. I'm extremely picky about my meat, and I would not use the guide's butcher service. We boned ours out and packed it with dry ice to bring home. My wife is past good when it comes to wrapping meat and we were able to keep it for three years with no loss in quality, until it was all eaten. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jolly | Aug 6 2015, 04:45 AM Post #12 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Ever seen a favela without a road within 500 miles? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Klaus | Aug 6 2015, 07:55 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No. And your point is? |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Jolly | Aug 6 2015, 09:06 AM Post #14 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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My point is that there are ways to earn a living in a favela, beside drugs and prostitution. In fact, there are multiple avenues of opportunity available. In the case of the Nunavik, there is very, very little in terms of opportunity. Think no roads to speak of within 500 miles. Think of the closest hospital with advanced capabilities being 1000 miles away. No hunters, no money. No money, and I hope you like whale blubber, polar bear steaks, arctic char and igloo living, because that's about where you are going to, should you be a native Inuit. And even then, notice that somebody is hunting, if only for subsistence. When I was up there, black bears were a target of opportunity. Since the season was so late, the guides skirted the law by not selling you the tags until after you'd shot a bear. At one point, we had 24 guys hunting out of the same base camp. In one week, they managed to kill one bear...A decent 300 pounder, which is not huge, but certainly within reason - bear are notoriously hard to judge, and that's speaking from personal experience. Up close and very personal experience. There was one they thought might have been wounded, but nobody wanted to go in after him, not in the thickets. My buddy and I decided we'd wade in there and chance a little tete a tete with Mr. Bear, but never found any blood or evidence he was hit. I don't think he was. We didn't have any polar bear tags, but the guides told us we might see one, as the time of the year was about right for a few to migrate down. If possible, i would have anted up and popped one of those guys in a heartbeat, but again, no tags. And alas, no white bears. Polar bears are one of the few creatures that have no fear of man and will routinely hunt people. They're big, they're fast and they're mean. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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12:48 AM Jul 11