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Confederate flags spotted outside the US
Topic Started: Jul 11 2015, 12:20 PM (3,379 Views)
Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Larry, you've got so many imaginary friends it's probably hard to keep up with them.


Ballsqueeze, I realize you're not a very intelligent person, but Jon, who has access to everyone's IP addresses, has already stated on the record that fartsmeller is not me.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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The South today is different than what is was 150 years ago. I just wish more Southerners would understand that. I don't know why so many Southerners insist on living in the past, while trying to selectively forget the great evil that was part of it.


I can tell you exactly why. Because we still, all these years later, have to put up with yankees telling us why we fought them, getting it wrong, and insisting on portraying the South as having some "great evil" as part of it.

Read this website, Red Rice. It gives a quite detailed explanation of the Civil War, without trying to argue one side or the other.

http://blueandgraytrail.com/features/southerncauses.html

Follow all the links. I especially like the way they explain why slavery was not the cause of the Civil War, in ways that even revisionists like yourself should be able to understand.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Oh - and about those indians who were 90% wiped out before the pilgrims landed....

Coming from the state you're from I can see why they taught you that, seeing as how it was your state where the whites went on nightly raids slaughtering indian men, women, and children while they slept, and then brought their heads back to town to kick them down the streets during their almost weekly "Thanksgiving Parade" - parades to celebrate their thanks to God for that day's "victory" over the "savages".......

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jul 14 2015, 09:01 PM
BULL ****

Don't even try to go there with me, Red Rice.
Prove it.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I have already.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jul 14 2015, 09:11 PM
Oh - and about those indians who were 90% wiped out before the pilgrims landed....

Coming from the state you're from I can see why they taught you that, seeing as how it was your state where the whites went on nightly raids slaughtering indian men, women, and children while they slept, and then brought their heads back to town to kick them down the streets during their almost weekly "Thanksgiving Parade" - parades to celebrate their thanks to God for that day's "victory" over the "savages".......

Yeah.

Tell that to Cherokee in Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia.

The Seminoles in Florida.

The Comanche in Texas.

You think the Southerners lived in peace and harmony with the Native Americans? Not in this world, or any other.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
I AM a Cherokee in Tennessee. So no offense, but I don't need a yankee from New England who only knows what he's read in books telling me a damned thing about how indians were treated.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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Now read the last link I gave you and learn something.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Valdez
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Larry
Jul 14 2015, 09:41 PM
Now read the last link I gave you and learn something.
A lost cause rag that doesn't mention the millions of southern slaves and calls Lincoln an abolitionist. Are you in a trance, fartsmeller? Maybe lay off that dang pie.


Juan
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Coming back to the original point about the flag, I think at some point the historic development doesn't matter anymore, but what matters is its current meaning in the heads of people.

It reminds me of the discussion about the German national anthem. These days we don't sing the first stanza anymore, which starts with "Deutschland über alles" (Germany above all). Historically, the text was an attempt to end the scattered regionalism that was prevalent at the time, hence it was not at all meant as putting down other countries. But the meaning has shifted over time, and it was abused by the Nazis and others, hence we had to abandon it.

Maybe it is similar with the Confederate flag.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jul 14 2015, 09:41 PM
Now read the last link I gave you and learn something.
I did read the link. It's a good historical website, and the link you provided is a good summation of the other issues that concerned the South. However, you will notice that it begins with the sentence :
Quote:
 
By the time Abraham Lincoln was elected president a single issue, the rise of the abolitionists, became the focal point of Southerners.

That's because of the info provided on the preceding page (http://blueandgraytrail.com/features/northerncauses.html), which starts with:

Quote:
 
It is true that the single, simple answer to the question "What caused the Civil War?" is slavery, but the causes of The Civil War are by no means simple, and saying slavery caused the Civil War is somewhat akin to saying the invention of the printing press caused the Enlightenment. While the two are inextricably tied together, and one probably would not have happened without the other, the invention of the printing press was not the only element that contributed to The Enlightenment.

The same can be said about the Civil War. Without slavery, the divisions that split our nation probably would not have occurred, but slavery was not the only cause of the war.

Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jul 14 2015, 09:40 PM
I AM a Cherokee in Tennessee. So no offense, but I don't need a yankee from New England who only knows what he's read in books telling me a damned thing about how indians were treated.

So you know all about Tennessee's Trail of Tears, along which the Cherokee nation was forcibly relocated from Georgia, the Carolinas and Tennessee to Oklahoma. You know about the 4000 Cherokee who died on the trail. You know that this is why there are no federally recognized Indian tribes in Tennessee today, and only two communities (the Chikamaka and Etowah Cherokee), who are the Cherokee descendants who escaped removal.

In Massachusetts however, there is one federally recognized tribe (the Wampanoags) as well as the Chappiquiddic band, the Cowasuck band, the Hassanamisco Nipmuc tribe, and the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Thank you for finally quoting something that tells the truth, even though you highlighted the wrong parts:

Quote:
 
It is true that the single, simple answer to the question "What caused the Civil War?" is slavery, but the causes of The Civil War are by no means simple, and saying slavery caused the Civil War is somewhat akin to saying the invention of the printing press caused the Enlightenment. While the two are inextricably tied together, and one probably would not have happened without the other, the invention of the printing press was not the only element that contributed to The Enlightenment.

The same can be said about the Civil War. Without slavery, the divisions that split our nation probably would not have occurred, but slavery was not the only cause of the war.


You have stated quite clearly that slavery was THE reason for the war. As the quote shows, it was not. That is what *I* have been telling you all along. I have never once made the claim that slavery wasn't an issue.

You still don't understand what's being said in the first quote you cited, however. It clearly states what became a "focal point" - it was the rise of the abolitionists - not slavery.

Now, go back and learn *why* Southerners were focused on the rise of the abolitionists, instead of trying to claim the statement is referring to slavery.

To understand it you're going to have to set aside your yankee taught opinions, and accept the fact that as of yet you don't have a clue and need to reeducate yourself.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Larry
Jul 15 2015, 04:10 AM
That is what *I* have been telling you all along. I have never once made the claim that slavery wasn't an issue.

Of course you did.

Quote:
 
The Civil War was NOT about slavery.


Quote:
 
Now, go back and learn *why* Southerners were focused on the rise of the abolitionists, instead of trying to claim the statement is referring to slavery.


The abolitionists weren't about slavery??!

Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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You know that this is why there are no federally recognized Indian tribes in Tennessee today, and only two communities (the Chikamaka and Etowah Cherokee), who are the Cherokee descendants who escaped removal.


See what happens when all you know comes from books?

The Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation is a federally recognized tribe. There are *many* "communities" of us here, and I didn't learn about the Trail of Tears from reading some book, I learned about it as a small child sitting around listening to the old ones as they *shed tears* retelling the story of what was done to their family members.

I'm happy for you that you have some injuns up their in your state you can point to - a claim akin to someone saying "one of my best friends is a nigger"..

but the fact remains you have a seriously flawed understanding of the Civil War, one can see it by looking at your equally flawed understanding of American Indians and what happened to them.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Larry
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The abolitionists weren't about slavery??!


Well, I give up. It you aren't able to understand that simple issue, there's no hope of ever getting you to see the rest of your crippled "knowledge" about the Civil war.

Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
The cause of the Civil War:



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y8VCbvMoCV8
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Remember those threads where Americans tried to tell English people what it was like to live in England based on stuff they'd seen on the internet?

:tongue:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Larry
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hahahahahaha
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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AndyD
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Senior Carp
John D'Oh
Jul 15 2015, 04:36 AM
Remember those threads where Americans tried to tell English people what it was like to live in England based on stuff they'd seen on the internet?

:tongue:
And I thought you'd forgotten. Our Harriet Harman is such a modern commie-pinko you know ^_^
Every morning the soul is once again as good as new, and again one offers it to one's brothers & sisters in life.

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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Klaus
Jul 14 2015, 11:56 PM
But the meaning has shifted over time, and it was abused by the Nazis and others, hence we had to abandon it.
Much like with the swastika.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
Not to fret folks, the freedom fighters of the Donetsk-Lukhansk region, or better, Novorossiya, have adopted a variation of the Rebel battle flag as their own, in their just struggle with the neo-fascist Kiev regime:

Posted Image

The defiant and liberating spirit of the flag lives on!
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Luke's Dad
Jul 14 2015, 12:44 PM
We get it, some people don't see the stars and bars as racist. That's fine. But if you can't see why an entire race finds it distressing and objectionable, then you have little or no compassion.
Absolutely true. The Stars and Bars, to some, represents oppression, brutality and racism.

And there are whole regions of Afghanistan, Iraq and the Middle East that would feel exactly the same about the Stars and Stripes.

Either you cherry-pick based on your own bias and say one's okay but the other isn't, or you conclude that the meanings of symbols are subjective and contextual.

That's what I'm against here. Outlawing the subjective. This place is supposed to be about protecting that.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Jul 15 2015, 06:42 AM
That's what I'm against here. Outlawing the subjective. This place is supposed to be about protecting that.
I don't think the subjective is being outlawed. As far as the Confederate Flag is concerned, what happened so far have been states withdrawing endorsement of the flag, and some individual businesses withdrawing sale of the flag. Private citizens (and businesses, for that matter) are still free to fly the flag, so the flag has not been outlawed.

This place (I assume you mean TNCR) is certainly not "outlawing" the Confederate flag. If Larry wishes, for example, he can make the Confederate Flag his avatar and I doubt any of the admin/moderator will take action against that.
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Axtremus
Jul 15 2015, 06:58 AM
Aqua Letifer
Jul 15 2015, 06:42 AM
That's what I'm against here. Outlawing the subjective. This place is supposed to be about protecting that.
I don't think the subjective is being outlawed. As far as the Confederate Flag is concerned, what happened so far have been states withdrawing endorsement of the flag, and some individual businesses withdrawing sale of the flag. Private citizens (and businesses, for that matter) are still free to fly the flag, so the flag has not been outlawed.

This place (I assume you mean TNCR) is certainly not "outlawing" the Confederate flag. If Larry wishes, for example, he can make the Confederate Flag his avatar and I doubt any of the admin/moderator will take action against that.
I'm not talking about some Federal statute, I'm talking about social lynch mobs. We're not doing a very good job at policing ourselves.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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