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Tip Free
Topic Started: May 31 2015, 04:51 PM (316 Views)
George K
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Finally
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2015/05/29/sacramento-restaurants-weigh-ditching-tipping-as-minimum-wage-increases/
Quote:
 
SACRAMENTO (CBS13) — Sacramento restaurants are considering joining restaurants in other cities and eliminating tips to absorb the rising minimum wage, and instead using a service charge.
Some restaurants in San Francisco and Seattle have already gone tip free, adding a non-negotiable service charge to bills instead.

The details are still being ironed out, but one spot in Oakland has tacked on a 16 percent surcharge. A portion would go to servers, while the rest covers the cost of rising salaries.

In January, the minimum wage climbs to $10 an hour in the capital city, while in Los Angeles it will be $15 an hour in 2020. State lawmakers are also considering a bill to raise California’s minimum wage to $13 an hour.

Fine with me. I'm going to pay 15-20% more anyway. I really don't care how it comes out of my wallet, and this decreases the bullshit. However, I can get people objecting to the idea that it doesn't incentivize the staff.

I tip generously ($15 for a $8 cab ride on Friday), and at least 20% at a restaurant, assuming service is, well, serviceable.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
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George K
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Finally
And you thought this would be a circumcision thread, didn't you?
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
It's a nice step forward, better yet would be to just roll the "service charge" right into the price of items in the menu and safe the customers from having to do math.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
George K
May 31 2015, 04:53 PM
And you thought this would be a circumcision thread, didn't you?
Waiter, your tip's in my soup....
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
I'm utterly against it, as is my daughter who is a server. Reaping the same dollar regardless of performance will kill service.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Mikhailoh
Jun 1 2015, 06:42 AM
I'm utterly against it, as is my daughter who is a server. Reaping the same dollar regardless of performance will kill service.
Yep, of course it will. Terrible idea.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Copper
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Shortstop
You have to think like a Californian. Just raise the minimum wage to $100 per hour and the problem is solved.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Incidentally, I liked Sydney's system at bars. People still tipped, but because the minimum wage was high enough to give red-blooded Americans a coronary, the tips were also much lower. Still, they'd certainly add up at the end of the night, and with Australian taxes being what they are, cash-in-hand was pretty nice.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Jun 1 2015, 06:42 AM
I'm utterly against it, as is my daughter who is a server. Reaping the same dollar regardless of performance will kill service.
It might be worth reserving judgement and seeing what happens. There's quite a bit wrong with the current system from the perspective of servers getting screwed by knobhead customers, and then getting a nice little post-screwing gift from the IRS.

After all, it is possible to get good service at take-away places if there's a decent manager, and they have little or no tips.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Really? You think you know better than someone who is in that field?

There is no sense in replacing one flawed system with another that is obviously flawed as well and expecting things will be significantly better.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Jun 1 2015, 07:34 AM
Really? You think you know better than someone who is in that field?
I know a few people who wait table who don't agree with you.

Condescending bugger :lol:
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
John D'Oh
Jun 1 2015, 07:31 AM
Mikhailoh
Jun 1 2015, 06:42 AM
I'm utterly against it, as is my daughter who is a server. Reaping the same dollar regardless of performance will kill service.
It might be worth reserving judgement and seeing what happens. There's quite a bit wrong with the current system from the perspective of servers getting screwed by knobhead customers, and then getting a nice little post-screwing gift from the IRS.

After all, it is possible to get good service at take-away places if there's a decent manager, and they have little or no tips.
Nah, son. Nah. ^-^

Tips are great for everybody. The first time a customer comes in, sure, it might be a mixed bag as to what kind of tip the wait staff's going to receive. But wait staff who know their business can often tell if they're going to get stiffed, and there are of course the return customers to consider. A lot of the time, you know what you're getting into when a new table's seated.

So if you think you're dealing with crap customers, what you then do is forget that table. Screw them, there's no incentive to provide exceptional service. What you should do is focus on the tables that you have a chance with. And being more attentive will always be worth your while when you have decent customers.

Is this fair? It's not equal, but hell yes it's fair. You don't believe in tipping? Fine, fuck you, you're getting crap service. Are you a regular tipper? Nice service all around. It makes customers get what they pay for and it saves the wait staff from bending over backwards for assholes, and there are a good many indeed during any given shift.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
John D'Oh
Jun 1 2015, 08:10 AM
Mikhailoh
Jun 1 2015, 07:34 AM
Really? You think you know better than someone who is in that field?
I know a few people who wait table who don't agree with you.

Condescending bugger :lol:
And YOU, my favorite wanker friend, are an ENGINEER. Like you know any restaurant folks. :lol:

Besides, if they think it's a good idea, that is just so they can fuck off all day and get paid the same while you are late for your after lunch meeting.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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George K
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Finally
On the Amtrak forum, there's been a lot of discussion about tipping. There are two classes of employees on Amtrak:

1) The crew - engineer, conductor and assistant conductor. These are unionized salaried employees. They work a fixed number of hours and are relieved by another crew at designated stops (which also serve as places to refuel, load water, etc). Your interaction with the crew is minimal. Their job is to make sure the train runs safely and efficiently.

2) Onboard Services (OBS). These folks include the cooks, the wait-staff in the dining car, and the passenger car attendants - for coach, there's usually one attendant per car, and for sleepers there's another SCA (sleeping car attendant) per sleeper. Their job is to keep the car clean, stock toilets, turn down and make beds, help with luggage etc. These are the people you have contact with, and they are on the train for the entire ride, be it 10 hours, or 60.

I don't know what kind of money the crew earns, but I'd imagine it's pretty good, particularly as you gain experience and seniority.

OBS, otoh, are not paid as well, and they rely on tips to supplement their income. I've heard that beginning OBS employees earn about $30K.

As far as my practice has been: In the dining car, I tip as though I were in a restaurant. So, if our meal is $50 (even though it's included in my fare), I'll tip 20% or more.

For my SCA, I'll usually tip $10 when we board and meet, and then $20 per day. I think that's a reasonable amount to clean up after me, bring me ice when I ask, and make my bed. I've heard people say that tipping before you get service is like a bribe. That may be the case, but when we moved into the condo, a few Jacksons spread around sure made things go smoothly for the rest of the day.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
People appreciate being patted where they can feel it. I use the same strategy, especially when I first get to a hotel I know I will be staying at quite often. It takes almost no time for the word to get out. Then I always show all the staff respect as people. They appreciate that just as much.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Mikhailoh
Jun 1 2015, 08:41 AM
And YOU, my favorite wanker friend, are an ENGINEER. Like you know any restaurant folks. :lol:
OTOH, I know a surprisingly large number of cheap assholes who don't tip enough based on some pseudo-statistical assessment of the quality of service.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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kluurs
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Fulla-Carp
What incentive will there be for young women to pretend that they find me attractive and sexually desirable? Geesh...worst idea ever.
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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
I am one of the who think tips should be eliminated. I just do not think that tips motivate people - I think good waitresses will be good if they get a tip or not; bad waitresses the same. Increase the salary, increase the price on the menu and get rid of tipping. :) Tipping is not as common in Asia, and I do not think that the level of waitresses is any better or worse than in the USA, even though they are not getting tips.

Most jobs are in some way service related - why do we need to tip a waitriess, but not a public bus driver? Why do we need to tip a waitress but not a doctor so does surgery on you? Why do we need to tip a waitress but not the cashier at the groceries store? etc etc



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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Jun 1 2015, 06:42 AM
I'm utterly against it, as is my daughter who is a server. Reaping the same dollar regardless of performance will kill service.
You need to get out more. Out, like, outside the USA.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
John D'Oh
Jun 1 2015, 09:27 AM
Mikhailoh
Jun 1 2015, 08:41 AM
And YOU, my favorite wanker friend, are an ENGINEER. Like you know any restaurant folks. :lol:
OTOH, I know a surprisingly large number of cheap assholes who don't tip enough based on some pseudo-statistical assessment of the quality of service.
That's where the engineer part comes in.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
taiwan_girl
Jun 1 2015, 09:58 AM
I am one of the who think tips should be eliminated. I just do not think that tips motivate people - I think good waitresses will be good if they get a tip or not; bad waitresses the same. Increase the salary, increase the price on the menu and get rid of tipping. :) Tipping is not as common in Asia, and I do not think that the level of waitresses is any better or worse than in the USA, even though they are not getting tips.

Most jobs are in some way service related - why do we need to tip a waitriess, but not a public bus driver? Why do we need to tip a waitress but not a doctor so does surgery on you? Why do we need to tip a waitress but not the cashier at the groceries store? etc etc



Bus drivers can't change their route based on who they're driving, but taxi drivers can. So, you tip taxi drivers but not bus drivers.

Doctors don't get tips because if they do shoddy work, their customers don't just get disappointed, they can die. Also, they don't need tips to supplement their income in order to live and waiters do.

Also, much to Ax's gross misunderstanding, going to a restaurant is not the same experience as buying food from the grocery store. You are paying a place to wait on you and make a meal for you. (It's their meal they're making, so I even take general issue with people giving special requests at restaurants, to be honest. If you're so picky that you don't let the cook do his job then stay home and make it your damn self.)

If you don't want to pay somebody to be prompt with refilling your glass, coordinating your meal so that everyone gets served at the same time—regardless of the varying time it takes to cook each course and menu item—and make recommendations based on what you like, then go to Chipotle or somewhere that doesn't have a wait staff.

I know that having a no-tip system can work, but I think it would be worse for all involved.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Axtremus
Jun 1 2015, 10:01 AM
Mikhailoh
Jun 1 2015, 06:42 AM
I'm utterly against it, as is my daughter who is a server. Reaping the same dollar regardless of performance will kill service.
You need to get out more. Out, like, outside the USA.
Funny. I was going to suggest you do the same. :lol2:

What is done outside the US has no bearing because on this discussion it is done in a different culture. In our culture there is no substantial benefit I can see to taking this step, outside of it makes it easier for the government to steal servers' money.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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taiwan_girl
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Fulla-Carp
Aqua Letifer
Jun 1 2015, 10:22 AM
taiwan_girl
Jun 1 2015, 09:58 AM
I am one of the who think tips should be eliminated. I just do not think that tips motivate people - I think good waitresses will be good if they get a tip or not; bad waitresses the same. Increase the salary, increase the price on the menu and get rid of tipping. :) Tipping is not as common in Asia, and I do not think that the level of waitresses is any better or worse than in the USA, even though they are not getting tips.

Most jobs are in some way service related - why do we need to tip a waitriess, but not a public bus driver? Why do we need to tip a waitress but not a doctor so does surgery on you? Why do we need to tip a waitress but not the cashier at the groceries store? etc etc



Bus drivers can't change their route based on who they're driving, but taxi drivers can. So, you tip taxi drivers but not bus drivers.

Doctors don't get tips because if they do shoddy work, their customers don't just get disappointed, they can die. Also, they don't need tips to supplement their income in order to live and waiters do.

Also, much to Ax's gross misunderstanding, going to a restaurant is not the same experience as buying food from the grocery store. You are paying a place to wait on you and make a meal for you. (It's their meal they're making, so I even take general issue with people giving special requests at restaurants, to be honest. If you're so picky that you don't let the cook do his job then stay home and make it your damn self.)

If you don't want to pay somebody to be prompt with refilling your glass, coordinating your meal so that everyone gets served at the same time—regardless of the varying time it takes to cook each course and menu item—and make recommendations based on what you like, then go to Chipotle or somewhere that doesn't have a wait staff.

I know that having a no-tip system can work, but I think it would be worse for all involved.
Aqua Letifer,

I agree with a lot of your writing. I am in favor of raising the wage high enough so that tips are not required, and are not expected. I was reading somewhere where tips started out at 10% of the final bill, then 15% of the final bill, now in the US, it is expected that the tip will be close to 20%.

I still think that tipping is not a great motivator, and most people will tip close to the same percentage, no matter how good (or bad) the service was.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Not me. You get what you earn. If you give me marginal service you get a marginal tip. Excellent service, excellent tip. I like to give big tips because that means I had a great experience, which is what I came out for to begin with.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
taiwan_girl
Jun 1 2015, 11:25 AM
I still think that tipping is not a great motivator, and most people will tip close to the same percentage, no matter how good (or bad) the service was.
You'd be surprised. It can vary quite a lot. At least that's been my experience.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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