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| On trial for 300,000 counts of accessory to murder | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 21 2015, 03:57 AM (628 Views) | |
| Klaus | Apr 21 2015, 03:57 AM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3048472/Still-defiant-bookkeeper-Auschwitz-sits-arms-folded-court-70-Holocaust-survivors-face-300-000-accessory-murder-charges.html |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Mikhailoh | Apr 21 2015, 04:07 AM Post #2 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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The money quote is right here in bold. She is right. It matters very little what a 93 year old man's punishment is. It's the documentary nature of the trial and his words. I suspect he has paid a price already far greater than Germany could inflict on him - 70 years of guilt, of knowing who he was. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Mikhailoh | Apr 21 2015, 04:15 AM Post #3 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Annnd I just read the rest of it. As I said, what can we do to him that is worse than is life has already been? But I think of men like him whenever I keep hearing about the 'moderate Muslims'. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| jon-nyc | Apr 21 2015, 05:11 AM Post #4 |
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Cheers
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A guy like this would never have been prosecuted after the war or 20 or even 40 years later. The bar for what constitutes a prosecutable role gets lower and lower as this era recedes in time. I think before the generation has fully passed we'll see someone prosecuted 'just' for membership in the SS or SA. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Apr 21 2015, 05:29 AM Post #5 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Maybe they will all have to wear armbands or something. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Horace | Apr 21 2015, 09:32 AM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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If someone gets prosecuted just for membership in the Hitler Youth, we'll definitely have Godwin'd ourselves. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| George K | Apr 21 2015, 12:50 PM Post #7 |
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Finally
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An interesting twist: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.616615
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| jon-nyc | May 31 2015, 05:44 AM Post #8 |
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Cheers
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So now a U.S. congresswoman suggests punishment for former Nazi party membership.
(This is referring to legal immigrants from Germany who came after the war, paid into social security during their working life, then took benefits. She thinks that's 'outrageous') http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/us/us-paid-residents-linked-to-nazi-crimes-20-million-in-benefits-report-says.html |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| John D'Oh | May 31 2015, 05:53 AM Post #9 |
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MAMIL
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The idiocy of somebody who doesn't understand history. They name buildings after von Braun, who used slave labourers and was a member of the SS, but they want to victimize geriatric old men who did nothing more than sign up. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Mikhailoh | May 31 2015, 05:58 AM Post #10 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I guess it is true we must always have an enemy. We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia. http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/56045/why-is-oceania-only-at-war-with-one-other-nation |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| George K | May 31 2015, 06:08 AM Post #11 |
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Finally
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I wonder if Representative Maloney was in office when Kleagle Byrd was in the Senate. (brb) Well, yes. It seems she was. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Horace | May 31 2015, 06:23 AM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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The politics of outrage. It's on Jewish people to reject this. None of the rest of us can. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Piano*Dad | May 31 2015, 01:56 PM Post #13 |
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Bull-Carp
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I don't know how I come down on this one. The man has clearly said that he is a witness to history. He denies nothing, and his reason for coming forward was to refute Holocaust denial. For that I give him real credit. On the other hand, he was a part of the world's most despicable industrial killing episode. Even though he didn't pick up a knife and sadistically insert it, he was a part of the active administration of the process. If a capo who prevented escapes is liable, perhaps he is as well. As he says, he'll await legal judgment within the current system. He already knows his moral guilt, and has lived with it for the past 72 years. |
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| George K | Jul 15 2015, 03:29 PM Post #14 |
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Finally
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http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-right-outcome-for-an-auschwitz-guard-1437000363
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 15 2015, 04:14 PM Post #15 |
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Cheers
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7 minutes each. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jul 15 2015, 06:09 PM Post #16 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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If we're talking personal morality, then for me, that's the crux of it. I truly believe that the only thing worse than taking part in the holocaust is trying to convince others it never happened. Because of that, his speaking out against the atrocity does factor in, and I don't think he should serve his sentence in some prison. House arrest? Sure. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 15 2015, 06:16 PM Post #17 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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What punishment can we inflict that is worse than what he has lived with? |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Jul 15 2015, 06:19 PM Post #18 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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I personally don't care about that. You don't get a pass for being emotionally tormented over your part in a human atrocity of historical proportions. But by debunking the Holocaust deniers and reminding others of exactly what happened, he serves society better outside prison than in. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 15 2015, 06:32 PM Post #19 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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94 years old. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Klaus | Jul 15 2015, 11:37 PM Post #20 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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He'll not go to prison. He's much too old for that. The whole trial is very symbolic. I'm also not sure whether I like the legal precedent. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Catseye | Jul 16 2015, 01:10 AM Post #21 |
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Pisa-Carp
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No, it is not worse. Trying to convince others it never happened is not close to being as bad as having taken part in it. Not to say the denial is a good thing or a harmless thing. |
| "How awful a knowledge of the truth can be." -- Sophocles, Oedipus Rex | |
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| Larry | Jul 16 2015, 06:00 AM Post #22 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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I don't know if it qualifies as "industrial" - but the world's most despicable killing episode occurred right here in the US to the Native Americans. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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4:56 PM Jul 10