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Acupuncture
Topic Started: Feb 20 2015, 01:58 PM (280 Views)
George K
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Finally
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/phantom-acupuncture/
Quote:
 
The totality of evidence strongly indicates that there is nothing specific to acupuncture. Acupuncture points don’t exist, Qi does not exist, and the elaborate details of acupuncture treatment do not matter. In other words – acupuncture is an elaborate (and unnecessarily so) placebo.

We can now add phantom acupuncture to sham and placebo acupuncture as lines of evidence demonstrating that acupuncture is no more than a placebo. The researchers indicate their desire to take the next step – to see if there is a clinical response to phantom acupuncture. The placebo hypothesis predicts that there should be, at least to some extent, depending on proper blinding (if possible).

What all of this means is that the very concept of acupuncture adds nothing to our understanding of the universe, and biology and medicine specifically. It is a failed concept. We lose nothing by discarding it. Any part of acupuncture that “works” is mere placebo and therefore not specific to acupuncture. Anything specific to acupuncture does not work.

Any non-specific symptomatic benefits to acupuncture (which do not appear to be clinically significant, by the way) can be achieved without sticking needles through the skin (which entails some risk), does not require special training, and does not require an expensive elaborate procedure. Further, persisting in the myth of acupuncture fosters misunderstanding of science, biology, and medicine which has insidiously negative effects.

Acupuncture itself is a phantom phenomenon and should go the way of the ether and N-rays.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
I think I will let you be the one to tell this to my wife. :lol:
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Is that news?

It's the same with all the other "alternative medicine". If there would be evidence that it works better than placebo, it wouldn't be called alternative medicine. It would be just medicine. "Alternative" is just a different word for "no evidence that it works".

One can make the argument that doctors should make use of the placebo effect (by any sufficiently inexpensive mumbo-jumbo), because the effect is real. But the counterargument is stronger and mentioned in the article:
Quote:
 
Further, persisting in the myth of acupuncture fosters misunderstanding of science, biology, and medicine which has insidiously negative effects.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
JBryan
Feb 20 2015, 02:22 PM
I think I will let you be the one to tell this to my wife. :lol:
It may be a placebo, but that doesn't mean it can't hurt like a bastard if she sticks pins in you.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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brenda
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..............
What about chiropractors? I've never been to one, but some people are convinced their chiro does wonders for them.

I've always considered it another form of 'alternative medicine' as Klaus notes, and not been inclined to use it.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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George K
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Finally
Been to a chiropractor. :wave:

When my back was really bad, I would go and get some intense TENS on the muscles. Exceptionally good massage, on a powered table.

Very relaxing. Then, when he would crack do the manipulation of my back, I felt immediate relaxation.

However, it only would last for an hour or so, and then, back to the same old, same old.

Q: How many chiropractors does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: Only one, but it takes 26 visits.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
It depends. I have sometimes gone into the chiro crooked as hell and hurting and come out upright and painless. Other times it felt good but no real relief. Haven't been to one for almost 20 years because I figured out how not to hurt myself. My back spasms quit for good when I got my Tempurpedic. Highly recommend.

I still get sore if I work too much physically, but it's only for a day.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
I once got a hair cut from an Indian (as in South Asian) barber shop where, at the end of the haircut, the Indian barber wrapped his arms around my head and twisted my head, in a manner that (I reckon) would seem very similar to Hollywood action scene where a professional fighter would "twist" the head of his opponent to finish him off. Caught me completely by surprise. I heard cracks from my neck, felt no pain, but immediately also felt like he has loosened something in my neck.

Then the barber did it again -- he twisted my heard in the other direction. Again, I heard cracks from the neck.

It was later explained to me that, much like many Chinese hair salons include light massage to their hair cut practice, it is also common for Indian barbershops to include such "head/neck twisting" in their hair cut practice.

Best therapeutic thing to have happened to me in a long while. The funky head twisting really loosened up my neck and increased my head's range of motion, and this effect seems to last. :)
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George K
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Finally
Interesting that it lasted for you. And good.

My "twisting" never lasted more than an hour.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Renauda
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HOLY CARP!!!
brenda
Feb 20 2015, 02:44 PM
What about chiropractors? I've never been to one, but some people are convinced their chiro does wonders for them.

I've always considered it another form of 'alternative medicine' as Klaus notes, and not been inclined to use it.
Quackery. At best a quick fix to alleviate some symptoms, but does not deal with the cause. Quackery.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Renauda
Feb 20 2015, 06:59 PM
Quackery. At best a quick fix to alleviate some symptoms, but does not deal with the cause. Quackery.
I can imagine "faith healers" who firmly believe that the "cause" is spiritual say the same thing about conventional medicine. :)
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Renauda
Feb 20 2015, 06:59 PM
At best a quick fix to alleviate some symptoms, but does not deal with the cause.
A fair amount of proper medicine could be described in the same way.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Palliative care.
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Feb 20 2015, 07:03 PM
Renauda
Feb 20 2015, 06:59 PM
Quackery. At best a quick fix to alleviate some symptoms, but does not deal with the cause. Quackery.
I can imagine "faith healers" who firmly believe that the "cause" is spiritual say the thing about conventional medicine. :)
Sometimes "conventional" medicine does only alleviate symptoms (e.g., when treating a cold, or palliative cancer care), but at least it is honest about it: They simply don't know (yet) how to treat the cause.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
brenda
Feb 20 2015, 02:44 PM
What about chiropractors? I've never been to one, but some people are convinced their chiro does wonders for them.

I've always considered it another form of 'alternative medicine' as Klaus notes, and not been inclined to use it.
They work, but within a limited scope.

I've had pain so bad I'd have to crawl to the bathroom, and when intense massage and spinal manipulation can have you walk out of the office...Well, I'm all for pain relief, even if only temporary.

Given time, most back problems resolve themselves. However, it's nice not to hurt quite as bad while the healing process takes place.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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