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NFL confirms it's looking into the matter of deflated footballs in AFC title game
Topic Started: Jan 19 2015, 09:49 AM (5,908 Views)
Luke's Dad
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George K
Jan 30 2015, 12:40 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html

Quote:
 
In a usually obscure profession that has received extraordinary attention during the controversy, some academic and research physicists now concede that they made a crucial error in their initial calculations, using an equation called the ideal gas law.

When that error is corrected, the amount of deflation predicted in moving from room temperature to a 50-degree field is roughly doubled. [Thomas] Healy, a graduate student in mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, went further: He measured the pressure drop in 12 footballs when they were moved from a room at 75 degrees to one at 50 degrees (the approximate temperature on the field in the Colts game).

In the experiment, the deflation of the footballs was close to the larger, correctly calculated value. When Healy moistened the balls to mimic the effects of the rainy weather that day, the pressure dropped even further, close to the deflation of 2 pounds per square inch that the N.F.L. is believed to have found.
A couple of problems they have been ignoring throughout these tests. First is the fact that the balls are not just laying around on the wet cold ground. They are insulated and dry inside a zippered sack. On the sideline where there are heaters in place to protect the players that aren't currently on the field. The ball that is currently being used is constantly being dried and used. 50 % of the time it is being held by a player or a referee.

Also, why didn't the Colts balls deflate? And for that matter, the initial complaints were registered by the Colts at the game held on November 16th in the Indianapolis dome.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Listen, it's scientifically proven not to be an issue, FFS. Stop your whining.

I've generated a mathematical analysis of the situation, which I'm too busy to explain right now, but graphed in 3-dimensions clearly demonstrates that there was no tampering:

Posted Image
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Luke's Dad
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By the way, here are the bags they are stored in:
Posted Image

I would say that A) they look fairly well insulated and B) An equipment manager could definitely access all of the balls within 90 seconds.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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jon-nyc
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George K
Jan 30 2015, 12:40 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html

Quote:
 
In a usually obscure profession that has received extraordinary attention during the controversy, some academic and research physicists now concede that they made a crucial error in their initial calculations, using an equation called the ideal gas law.

When that error is corrected, the amount of deflation predicted in moving from room temperature to a 50-degree field is roughly doubled. [Thomas] Healy, a graduate student in mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, went further: He measured the pressure drop in 12 footballs when they were moved from a room at 75 degrees to one at 50 degrees (the approximate temperature on the field in the Colts game).

In the experiment, the deflation of the footballs was close to the larger, correctly calculated value. When Healy moistened the balls to mimic the effects of the rainy weather that day, the pressure dropped even further, close to the deflation of 2 pounds per square inch that the N.F.L. is believed to have found.
Was the second round of measurements done by the NFL performed outside? I would have thought not.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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George K
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Finally
Good point.

The other question that I have not seen asked is: What about the Colts' balls?

(sit down, D'Oh, you know what I meant)
Edited by George K, Jan 30 2015, 04:06 PM.
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Copper
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George K
Jan 30 2015, 04:05 PM

The other question that I have not seen asked is: What about the Colts' balls?

They obviously cheated by overinflating. That's the only way they would be normal when measured in the cold and wet.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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George K
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Neil DeGrasse Tyson chimes in, and blows it.

Probably didn't go to physics class that day:

Quote:
 
Tyson is having none of it: “For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower-pressures, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air,” he tweeted.

Quote:
 
For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower-pressures, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air.

— Neil deGrasse Tyson (@neiltyson) January 26, 2015

The only problem with this hot science take is that Tyson’s numbers, and therefore his conclusions, are nonsense. Since Tyson is a noted debunker himself, he likely will not mind The A.V. Club helping him out a little.

Tyson’s error is to confuse gauge pressure with absolute pressure. The PSI figures at the heart of this mess are measurements of gauge pressure, meaning that they were read from a gauge that indicates pressure relative to the surrounding atmospheric pressure—much the same way that the Celsius scale indicates temperature relative to the freezing point of water. To do his math, Tyson appears to have divided the reported 2-PSI drop by about 13 PSI (the midrange of the NFL’s 12.5- to 13.5-PSI specification) and concluded that there was a 15 percent drop in pressure. This is like comparing a 20° C afternoon to a 0° C afternoon and concluding that 100 percent of the heat was lost in between. Just as you must first convert temperatures to an absolute scale like Kelvin before you can make that sort of percentage-based comparison, you must likewise convert gauge pressure to absolute pressure.

The conversion isn’t hard: You just add atmospheric pressure to gauge pressure, and you get the absolute pressure. The atmospheric pressure at sea level is approximately 14.7 PSI. So in absolute terms, the internal pressure Patriots’ footballs theoretically declined from 27.2 PSI to 25.2 PSI—a drop of about 7 percent. In a widely circulated blog post, an amateur scientist who goes only by “Hondo” determined over the weekend that if the pressure difference were explained exclusively by a temperature drop, the starting temperature would have to be about 87° F. (Hondo also initially used gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure but later corrected what he called a “rookie mistake.”) This Hondo guy may not have the name recognition of Tyson, but at least he uses the right numbers, declares his units, and shows his work.

Both Hondo and Tyson made their calculations by applying the ideal gas law—you may remember it as “PV = nRT”—and by assuming that temperature was the only change to the ball. That word “ideal” is in there for a reason, as real-world conditions are liable to diverge from tidy theoretical math. This is the point Belichick made in his Saturday press conference. The team was not, as Tyson insinuates, blaming temperature exclusively for any changes in pressure. Rather, Belichick pointed out that a football is a stitched leather oval with a bladder inside, and he argued that as a result, it is affected by a wide range of real-world variables. The coach said that the Patriots had conducted their own experiments and concluded that the typical indoor preparation of the ball combined with cold, wet conditions could account for the reported drop in PSI. But he added, “I think that anybody who wants to do those experiments should go ahead and do them themselves. Don’t take my word for it.”
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Mikhailoh
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Neil's pretty sloppy, isn't he?
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Less impressed by him the more I pay attention.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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George K
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Mikhailoh
Jan 31 2015, 12:06 PM
Neil's pretty sloppy, isn't he?
Well, I remember enough physics to know that if I had made an error like that on an exam, it would have been marked WRONG.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
I think he has the disease of celebrity. He's embraced it, so let him lie with it.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I'm guessing he hasn't had to do any actual sums for a long time. He's basically a professional talker. Presumably he has a team of less attractive people to do the boring work behind the scenes.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Copper
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He's an idiot
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
He's demonstrably not an idiot - but as some here know, I spoke about not loving him anymore recently on facebook.

He's a smart guy - hard to debate that.

But he's been compared one too many times to Carl Sagan for his own good - he's fogotten science in favor of fame.
Still a great communcicator, but not so much a scientist anymore.
Carl Sagan never got to that point.
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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George K
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Looks like the Patriots did it on purpose:

Quote:
 
An N.F.L. investigation has found that “it is more probable than not” that New England Patriots personnel intentionally deflated footballs to gain an advantage in the A.F.C. championship game last season, and that Tom Brady, the Super Bowl most valuable player, was probably aware of it.

No penalties have been announced.

The long-awaited report into so-called deflategate, released on Wednesday, concluded that it was probable that Patriots personnel were “involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules.”

The report said that Jim McNally, a locker room attendant, and John Jastremski, an equipment assistant, were involved in releasing air from the footballs. It said that besides those two and Brady, no other Patriots personnel, including Coach Bill Belichick, were aware of the wrongdoing. The report separately determined that the Patriots had not deliberately tried to introduce an improper football for kicking and cleared kicker Stephen Gostkowski of any wrongdoing.

In the A.F.C. championship game in January, the visiting Indianapolis Colts suggested that game balls were underinflated. This was found to be true, leading to the investigation into whether anyone affiliated with the Patriots had been involved.

The Patriots won, 45-7, but in the first half, a member of the Colts gave the officials a ball that appeared to be underinflated. The officials checked all 12 of the Patriots game balls and determined that all but one were below the mandated amount of air pressure.

The investigation was conducted by Theodore V. Wells Jr. and the law firm Paul, Weiss.

In a statement, Roger Goodell, the commissioner of the N.F.L., said: “Troy Vincent and his team will consider what steps to take in light of the report, both with respect to possible disciplinary action and to any changes in protocols that are necessary to avoid future incidents of this type.”

It is not the first time that the N.F.L. has concluded that the Patriots broke rules to gain an advantage. In 2007, the league fined the Patriots and Belichick and ordered the team to forfeit a first-round draft pick after a Patriots staff member was discovered videotaping signals by Jets coaches during a game at the Meadowlands.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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Copper
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Shortstop

Probable and Probably

In either case Jim McNally and John Jastremski are now and forever heroic figures in New England.

They deserve a nice gofundme.com.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
That wacky Tom.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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kluurs
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Fulla-Carp
Hey, it's only a game...
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George K
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Finally
kluurs
May 6 2015, 11:03 AM
Hey, it's only a game... business...
Rewards:
Quote:
 
In his report, attorney Ted Wells said the quarterback "was at least generally aware" of all the plans to prepare the balls to his liking, below the league-mandated minimum of 12.5 pounds per square inch. Wells said it was "more probable than not" that two Patriots employees - officials' locker room attendant Jim McNally and equipment assistant John Jastremski - executed the plan.

For his trouble, McNally asked for expensive shoes and signed footballs, jerseys and cash. He brokered the deals over a series of salty text messages with Jastremski that portray Brady as a hard-to-please taskmaster. "F--- Tom," one read.
A guide to GKSR: Click

"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... "
- Mik, 6/14/08


Nothing is as effective as homeopathy.

I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles.
- Klaus, 4/29/18
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
I'm desperately trying to give a sh!t, but I really can't seem to summon up the energy. It must be my jetlag.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Nunatax
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Middle Aged Carp
George K
Jan 31 2015, 12:03 PM
Neil DeGrasse Tyson chimes in, and blows it.

I haven't really been following this thread, but hasn't he solved the problem by blowing it?
You seem somewhat familiar. Have I threatened you before?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
If Tom was aware, it's a major penalty, since he lied to the NFL.

It could even mean 'ol Bill gets suspended for a year, because he's ultimately responsible.

Prediction: Tom Terrific is suspended 4 games, and two draft picks are forfeited.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
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The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
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The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
:lol:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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