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| Re: Ayn Rand | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 24 2014, 09:40 AM (1,377 Views) | |
| Renauda | Dec 25 2014, 06:40 AM Post #26 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I tried to read Rand. Quickly lost interest. Boring gibberish in my opinion. |
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| Dewey | Dec 25 2014, 07:07 AM Post #27 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I've read two and a half of her books, and a few smaller essays, and saw her do television interviews. As far as I'm concerned, she's a bore, a boor, completely anti-Christian, and someone who has serious anti-social mental disorders. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 25 2014, 07:09 AM Post #28 |
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MAMIL
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What I did notice in the readers poll of great novels I mentioned earlier, there were two writers who appeared a number of times, Ayn Rand and L. Ron Hubbard. They have at least two things in common - an inability to write decent prose, and a cult following. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| George K | Dec 25 2014, 07:16 AM Post #29 |
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Finally
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Well, she admits as much, doesn't she? Dewey channelling Larry!
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Jolly | Dec 25 2014, 07:21 AM Post #30 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Truth hurts. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Larry | Dec 25 2014, 07:31 AM Post #31 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Good grief..... You still don't get it. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Copper | Dec 25 2014, 07:33 AM Post #32 |
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Shortstop
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Did you know Ms. Rand wanted Mr. Disney to make a movie of her book Anthem? And Mr. Disney hung this quote on the wall of the American Adventure at Epcot Center in Walt Disney World. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Larry | Dec 25 2014, 07:34 AM Post #33 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Well,...... no. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Larry | Dec 25 2014, 07:36 AM Post #34 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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From Wiki: "The name "Objectivism" derives from the idea that human knowledge and values are objective: they exist and are determined by the nature of reality, to be discovered by one's mind, and are not created by the thoughts one has." Those who create their reality in their own mind will naturally not understand this. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Dewey | Dec 25 2014, 07:44 AM Post #35 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Of course - which is why it still amazes me how many people who profess to follow Christ can be Rand fans. Just as with my Limbaugh experience, I used to say that I agreed with some of Rand's points, while disagreeing with others, until I finally realized that the dark stuff far outweighed the good, and even a significant amount of what I wanted to consider good actually relied on the dark stuff, and had to be rejected if my loyalty to Christ was to be greater than to any particular political or social ideology. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Larry | Dec 25 2014, 07:49 AM Post #36 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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You're in no position to question anyone about that, Dewey. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 25 2014, 08:39 AM Post #37 |
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MAMIL
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I'm just reading what she said in that quote. She sounds very much like an elitist snob. Your interpretation seems to me to be twisting the words into what you'd like her to be saying. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Dec 25 2014, 08:43 AM Post #38 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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EDIT Nevermind. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Axtremus | Dec 25 2014, 01:42 PM Post #39 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Ayn Rand basically says that a person should be valued by his contribution to society. Her metric for "contribution" is some combination of materialism and originality. She seems to get points from Larry for her materialism angle, but not from Aqua for her originality angle, which I find somewhat surprising. On the basic idea of valuing people differently, I don't see what is so un-Christian about it. The Judeo-Christian god (according to scripture) certainly has his "chosen people" and his ordering of who shall be "first" or "last" or "least." So I don't even see why Christians should argue "all is equal in the eyes of God", much less using it to distinguish Christian teachings from Objectivism on the idea of valuing different people differently. So, uhm, who actually discusses Ayn Rand with other people in real-life Christmas parties or get-togethers? |
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| Larry | Dec 25 2014, 02:23 PM Post #40 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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She makes her point in the first two sentences: "The person who loves everybody and feels at home everywhere is the true hater of mankind. He expects nothing of men, so no form of depravity can outrage him." The person she's speaking to then questions her, asking basically the very question Dewey is trying to claim is pertinent: "You mean the person who says that there's some good in the worst of us?" She rejects this as being her meaning, and proceeds to give examples of what she is referring to. Having rejected the "we're all equal in God's eyes" argument, she gives five examples of what she *is* talking about. All five examples deal with basically the same issue: people who cannot appreciate the difference between putting in the hard work required to accomplish something of value and people who do not. She is saying exactly what she said she was saying in her second sentence - if you expect nothing of people, and accept nothing equally with achievement, then no form of depravity will bother you. You will accept anything. Summed up in plain English - "you've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything". |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Dewey | Dec 25 2014, 04:32 PM Post #41 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Here's why. Christian teaching is that there are certainly differences among people in terms of how much their actions are pleasing to God, consistent with the teachings of Christ - who, the teaching holds, is the physical, earthly incarnation of God's very self; the clearest example and model for understanding God's true will and whose life and teachings are the filter through which all scriptural interpretation is to be undertaken. However, this same teaching is adamant that regardless of how well or how badly we believe a person acts in ways consistent with or pleasing to God, as followers of Christ we are to extend all people the same measure of love. Any judgment or punishment that may or may not be due to people will be determined and implemented by God and God alone. While we may certainly have our own opinions regarding whether a person is due judgment, for us to assume the task of determining the accuracy of that judgment, or what an appropriate punishment is, or executing that punishment, are all roles that we have not been given. Doing so is to inappropriately assume the place and role of God in the life of the other, and that is one thing that God and Christ have particularly harsh words for. Theologically, a significant part of why we are to have equal love, compassion, and hospitality for all people is because that is how God chooses to treat us. One can spin the theology in a negative sense and, using some of Rand's words, say that God still loves us all despite the fact that in God's eyes, we're all balloon-makers. Conversely, one can spin the theology in a positive light, saying that we're to love all people equally because in God's eye's, we're all statue-carvers - we have all been created in God's image, and have been called very good upon our creation. Either path one prefers to follow, the ultimate destination is that Christian theology requires us to love all people equally, including - it could be argued, based on Christ's words, *especially* - those whom we don't believe measure up. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Larry | Dec 25 2014, 04:36 PM Post #42 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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You obviously think the word "love" only has one meaning. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Copper | Dec 25 2014, 05:04 PM Post #43 |
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Shortstop
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Yes, there are clearly several vocabulary problems here. |
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Jolly | Dec 25 2014, 05:53 PM Post #44 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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That's using Matthew 7 as a pretty darn big hook and letting a lot of the rest of the Bible go hang. First the passages from Mathew: Matthew 7:1-5(KJV) 7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. God is not banning Christians from judging. He tells us not to let hypocrisy cloud our judgement - that we should be leading the most Godly life possible, before we try to judge others. we must be doing the best we can to correct sin in our lives, before trying to point out the sin in others. And we also know that while this judging is in an earthly sense, God's Judgement is for eternity. We are told many times and in many places in the Scripture what is right and what is wrong. Are we being loving if we allow our fellow man to wallow in sin and not spread the good News, along with its inherent judgement of the ways of sinful men? Are we being loving, if we allow other believers to spread biblical errors or even to deceive others through their false or ignorant interpretation of the Gospel? Consider: Ephesians 4:14-16 KJV 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. It is our responsibility as the Church to correct erroneous teaching such as Liberation Theology and to try to promote sound doctrine. We have to use judgement between right and wrong if we are to obey verses like 1 Corinthians 5:11–13; 6:4; 2 Thessalonians 3:6; 1 Timothy 6:20; and Titus 3:9, just to name a few. But it also our responsibility to make that judgement from a studied position as possible: John 7:24 KJV 24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. People who call for tolerance and quote “judge not” out of context are not using sound thinking. Their call for tolerance is impossible because as Christians, we are called to judge righteously, and judging between right and wrong is something we do every day—and it should be a part of biblical judgement in every believer’s thinking. It is God’s Word that makes the judgment on morality and truth, not our own opinions or theories. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 25 2014, 06:15 PM Post #45 |
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MAMIL
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So Jolly, what do you think of Ayn Rand? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely interested. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Mikhailoh | Dec 25 2014, 06:50 PM Post #46 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Dewey | Dec 25 2014, 06:54 PM Post #47 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Please tell me you understood the linguistic parallel was intentional.
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Larry | Dec 25 2014, 07:00 PM Post #48 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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lol I'm not antisocial, and I certainly don't have any mental disorders. I just know sh!t from shinola, I know what I stand for, and I say what I mean. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Larry | Dec 25 2014, 07:02 PM Post #49 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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So to sum it all up, those whose thinking leans toward the left think an atheist is making a religious point, those whose thinking leans to the right sees that alone as proof that a lefty isn't capable of comprehending Ayn Rand's statement..... |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| John D'Oh | Dec 25 2014, 08:15 PM Post #50 |
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MAMIL
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I didn't think she was making a religious point. I do however find it fascinating that some who describe themselves as Christian will also follow the philosophy of Ayn Rand, which appears, to my uneducated eye at least, to be at odds with Christian teaching. I don't believe that it's possible to love my neighbor whilst simultaneously holding him in contempt, however much I try to obfuscate the meaning of love. I don't say this very often, but I'd love to hear IT's take on this. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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