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| New Math | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 1 2014, 01:39 PM (712 Views) | |
| George K | Oct 1 2014, 01:39 PM Post #1 |
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Finally
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http://www.redstate.com/2014/10/01/this-is-what-common-core-looks-like/
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| George K | Oct 1 2014, 01:40 PM Post #2 |
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Finally
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 1 2014, 01:59 PM Post #3 |
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Cheers
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Yeah, this is one way in which the cc standard are probably too advanced. Numerate people can easily pick up on a new method because the concepts are clear. But most people in school just learn the method they are taught and don't fundamentally understand why it works, so any change of method for them is like learning a foreign language. Re this:
Yeah, lots of parents think 'the kid just needs to learn how to subtract, teach him to subtract like we did do I can help'. And that's probably the most we can expect from most people. Having said that, its a little sad to have educational standards limited by what the parents can explain. If you disagree, go to the DMV and mingle with the crowd of random parents.... |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 1 2014, 02:01 PM Post #4 |
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Cheers
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By the way, I already do stuff like this with the boy. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Mark | Oct 1 2014, 02:28 PM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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unreal. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| John D'Oh | Oct 1 2014, 02:29 PM Post #6 |
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MAMIL
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Hell, all you need to do to realise how dumb regular people are is watch C-Span for 20 minutes, and take a look at who they vote for. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| George K | Oct 1 2014, 02:36 PM Post #7 |
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Finally
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I've read (and I have no independent verification of this) that one is now allowed to bring a calculator into your testing room for things like placement, SAT, etc. No need to learn method, let the computer do it for you. Can anyone confirm? That said, I remember taking physics in college and being confused by the formulas, etc. I found it much easier to remember the theory behind the formula, and deriving the formulas for my tests. I actually understood the *why*. |
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 1 2014, 02:53 PM Post #8 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Ok, but how do you add? I see what they are doing and it seems to me to be much more unwieldy than teaching the carrying/borrowing method we learned. It looks like they hired bad programmers to write the textbooks. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 1 2014, 03:53 PM Post #9 |
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Cheers
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Well, FWIW they're not promoting this as 'here's how you should subtract when you need to subtract'. It's a homework question - an exercise. It's asking 'do you understand whats going on here? Can you show us on these examples?' (Another reason the parents are really showing their ass here by complaining) |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| George K | Oct 1 2014, 03:58 PM Post #10 |
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Finally
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True. However, how does CC teach subtraction? http://www.businessinsider.com/how-common-core-subtraction-works-2014-5 http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/07/about-that-common-core-math-problem-making-the-rounds-on-facebook/ Edited by George K, Oct 1 2014, 03:59 PM.
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A guide to GKSR: Click "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08 Nothing is as effective as homeopathy. I'd rather listen to an hour of Abba than an hour of The Beatles. - Klaus, 4/29/18 | |
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| John D'Oh | Oct 1 2014, 04:07 PM Post #11 |
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MAMIL
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Is the problem with the common core that people don't like new methods, or is the main objection that people in Alabama shouldn't be taught maths the same way they are in Massachusetts? |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Copper | Oct 1 2014, 04:12 PM Post #12 |
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Shortstop
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_learning#Primacy
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The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 1 2014, 04:38 PM Post #13 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Calling it subtraction to teach something entirely different is highly suspect in my eyes. I'm not opposed to teaching different methods, but I am opposed to teaching them as if all are equal when they clearly are not. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 1 2014, 04:43 PM Post #14 |
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Cheers
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This is from NY's docs, note it's grade 2 not grade 3:
The bolded part is really what's going on here, and clearly the part that most people didn't really pick up on when teachers just taught a single method by rote. The point of this standard appears to be 'understand that subtraction and addition are really about decomposing base 10', not 'here's the method you use to add or subtract'. Now, as I indicated above, maybe this is too much to expect for most people. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Axtremus | Oct 1 2014, 04:57 PM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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It is. We simply have to admit that for some students, their best hope to learn certain things effectively is by rote; and that for some teachers, their best hope to teach certain things effectively is also by rote. |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 1 2014, 05:08 PM Post #16 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I understand that, and can add and subtract in several bases. But for the vast majority of people and certainly for 2nd graders, , how is that knowledge of any practical use? If your path requires you to understand different base number systems you will learn that at the time. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Horace | Oct 1 2014, 05:10 PM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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It is pretty alarming that any parent would find this method inscrutable. Teaching a way of doing longhand arithmetic for the four basic operations is a good thing, but not really that relevant. Different forms of long-hand arithmetic map to the theory behind the operation (best presented geometrically, usually) better or worse. Our old long-hand methods can be safely revamped; they don't say too much about the theory behind the operation IMO. The complaining parents more or less bear this out by not being able to understand this "new" method - apparently the theory had always escaped them. (As Jon noted.) |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| jon-nyc | Oct 1 2014, 05:12 PM Post #18 |
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Cheers
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@Mik: Well, it doesn't talk about different bases. I used the phrase 'base 10' as a simplification for 'ones place, tens place, hundreds place' which is very much in scope for early elementary ed. Having said that, I do think the CC might be a bridge too far, it certainly is for the parents of the girl in the original story. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 1 2014, 05:14 PM Post #19 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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If one can add and subtract proficiently I fail to see why the theory, such as it is, behind it is of significant value. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 1 2014, 05:18 PM Post #20 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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I understand that they are deconstructing the process, and that is not a bad thing in and of itself. I guess I would really like to see some evidence that this is more important than arts and music and history and all the other things that are falling on the altar of 'better'. Rather than what it takes to be competitive I'd rather see some focus on what it means to be a human being past the boundaries of crap psychology and sociology. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Oct 1 2014, 05:18 PM Post #21 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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If you know how to use a computer program, then you can do everything the program lets you do. But nothing more. And you're screwed if it starts to get glitchy. If you know how the program works, you can add to it, change it, and make it do whatever you want. And it'll never break on you. To not know how something works is to not know it at all. |
| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| Jolly | Oct 1 2014, 05:19 PM Post #22 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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My daughter now spends a good bit of her working day, teaching teachers how to understand this stuff. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 1 2014, 05:20 PM Post #23 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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Really, Aqua? Addition and subtraction? They hardly contain the plethora of possibilities that an application might have. Horrible analogy. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| Horace | Oct 1 2014, 05:22 PM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Understanding the theory behind rote processes allows you to use that theory to understand and perform that rote process, along with an infinite amount of other related processes. Not understanding the theory, but having memorized a rote process lets you perform that rote process, and little else. This is especially an issue with arithmetic since the rote processes are almost completely unused past school - adults use calculators for everything they can't do in their heads. (More or less restating Aqua's post.) |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Mikhailoh | Oct 1 2014, 05:23 PM Post #25 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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You just supported my argument. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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