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Ideas are peaceful. History is violent.
Topic Started: Aug 26 2014, 10:39 AM (493 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Fury, opens October 17th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q94n3eWOWXM
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Ayep.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
They're in a Sherman? They're toast.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Lights first time, every time. Or....

The Sherman was built to take on the Panzer III and IV, as the German tanks existed in 1940. As such, it did a fine job. It's shortcoming became more evident when the Germans up-armored the IV and brought out the Panther and the Tiger. the Pershing was the answer to the Panther and Tiger.

The U.S. knew, because of their battle doctrine, we were going to get a lot of tanks knocked out. That's why we trained way too many tankers at the beginning of the war - so many, that they were later transferred to infantry units. That's also why we were ten times better than anybody else at tank recovery...The Sherman, with its automotive reliability and simplicity, was able to be easily rebuilt in the field. While the Germans were trying to load a knocked out tank on a train car, we already had the Sherman back in the fight.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
According to Wiki, this movie is going to feature the last remaining working Tiger I. It's the first time a real Tiger has been used in a movie.

Also, I'm pretty sure Brad Pitt's awesomeness will overcome the inherent flammability of the Sherman.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
There were some Sherman diesels built...I think the Brits had some as did the USMC, but the diesel was not as powerful as the gas motor. Problem was logistical. The Sherman was built of a certain weight and size for a reason...The U.S. government thought the primary war would be fought in Europe and no land mass of North America would be involved. Therefore, the Sherman was built to be easily loaded in the shipping of the day, using the cranes of the day. Since most of the U.S. Army's vehicles and airplane ran on gasoline, the Sherman was built to run on gasoline. The side armor was vertical, because that was much faster to manufacture. The original 76mm gun was not a great anti-armor weapon, but arguable had the best HE shell of the war and was a great round for infantry support against other infantry.

The Sherman was not designed to be an armor-killer. That was the job of the Hellcat tank destroyer, artillery and the primary tank killer in Western Europe - Allied air power. Once the Allies established air superiority, it didn't much matter if every tank the Germans had was a King Tiger, there was only one outcome between a P47 Jug and Tiger.

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
John D'Oh
Aug 27 2014, 04:07 AM
According to Wiki, this movie is going to feature the last remaining working Tiger I. It's the first time a real Tiger has been used in a movie.
Probably because it takes 50 mechanics to keep it running.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Jolly
Aug 27 2014, 06:02 AM
Once the Allies established air superiority, it didn't much matter if every tank the Germans had was a King Tiger, there was only one outcome between a P47 Jug and Tiger.
Yeah but that took a long, looonnnng time. We had no idea what the hell we were doing in the air for a decent while.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Whats this 'we' sh1t? I always knew what I was doing in the air.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Aqua Letifer
Aug 28 2014, 07:47 AM
Jolly
Aug 27 2014, 06:02 AM
Once the Allies established air superiority, it didn't much matter if every tank the Germans had was a King Tiger, there was only one outcome between a P47 Jug and Tiger.
Yeah but that took a long, looonnnng time. We had no idea what the hell we were doing in the air for a decent while.
The bombers didn't. Lemay learned and applied British tactics to Japan, but that's another story.

The fighters? We didn't have the range we wanted until the P-51 with the Merlin engine and the drop tanks was available in sufficient quantity. But for dogfighting the P-38 and P-47 did quite well in Europe along with the Spitfire and Hurricane, while the P-40 did a lot of close air support, even in the early war in Africa.

And look at what the Russians were able to do with the P-39....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Jolly
Aug 28 2014, 09:19 AM
Aqua Letifer
Aug 28 2014, 07:47 AM
Jolly
Aug 27 2014, 06:02 AM
Once the Allies established air superiority, it didn't much matter if every tank the Germans had was a King Tiger, there was only one outcome between a P47 Jug and Tiger.
Yeah but that took a long, looonnnng time. We had no idea what the hell we were doing in the air for a decent while.
The bombers didn't. Lemay learned and applied British tactics to Japan, but that's another story.

Not true at all.

Our "strategic aerial offensive" that we launched mid-42 was entirely theoretical, and we had no idea what the hell we were doing. Sometimes we tried to mimic German shock tactics by using our bombing runs to terrorize German civilians. Other times we went after the German industrial machine. There was no clear, orchestrated plan then. Before Operation Pointblank in '43, we were just sending birds in the air.

Quote:
 
The fighters? We didn't have the range we wanted until the P-51 with the Merlin engine and the drop tanks was available in sufficient quantity. But for dogfighting the P-38 and P-47 did quite well in Europe


Sure did. But the P-38 didn't see any serious action in Europe until after Midway.

It took us a solid year, year and a half after Pearl Harbor before we had any semblance of an organized tactical aerial offensive.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Red Rice
HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Aug 28 2014, 09:59 AM
Quote:
 
The fighters? We didn't have the range we wanted until the P-51 with the Merlin engine and the drop tanks was available in sufficient quantity. But for dogfighting the P-38 and P-47 did quite well in Europe


Sure did. But the P-38 didn't see any serious action in Europe until after Midway.

It took us a solid year, year and a half after Pearl Harbor before we had any semblance of an organized tactical aerial offensive.
We should probably distinguish between the European and Pacific theaters, which were very different from each other. For example, as far as the Pacific is concerned, Midway occurred only 6 months after Pearl and is the greatest tactical aerial victory in history. After that, the US air offensive against Japan only went from strength to strength.
Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool.

I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss!

- Cecil Lewis
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Quote:
 
Our "strategic aerial offensive" that we launched mid-42 was entirely theoretical, and we had no idea what the hell we were doing. Sometimes we tried to mimic German shock tactics by using our bombing runs to terrorize German civilians. Other times we went after the German industrial machine. There was no clear, orchestrated plan then. Before Operation Pointblank in '43, we were just sending birds in the air.


Maybe I'm missing some history, but I don't remember the 8th Army Air Force being used to target population centers the way Bomber Harris did. LeMay did decide that would be an effective tool to use against the Japanese, which is why the B29 raids started bombing from lower altitudes and using incendiaries.

Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined didn't equal the ass-kicking we gave Tokyo.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
I saw Fury on its opening day.

Had a few technical quibbles. Would rate the movie as good, maybe the best war movie since Saving Private Ryan.

Worth seeing.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Seeing it tomorrow. I dunno if I buy the feel of the film, considering the time in which the plot takes place. Not a critique, though; I'm curious about it.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Aqua Letifer
Oct 18 2014, 12:30 PM
Seeing it tomorrow. I dunno if I buy the feel of the film, considering the time in which the plot takes place. Not a critique, though; I'm curious about it.
Well, you're the plot expert around here. :D

I think you'll like the feel. I think they went to a lot of pains to research authenticity. I think you can find several holes in the plot.

I look forward to your critique...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Copper
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Shortstop
Jolly
Oct 18 2014, 01:47 PM

I think they went to a lot of pains to research authenticity.

One of the common problems in movies like this is that the actors wear contemporary Hollywood pretty boy haircuts.

I took a look at the trailer. The haircuts look ok from what I saw. I'm not sure they are exactly accurate, there might be a few Hollywood pretty boys in there, but most at least looked passable.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
haha that was the first thing I was going to say - Brad Pitts' hair looks terrible, which for me adds greatly to the authenticity. The worst I remember was the Black Sheep Squadron on TV - lots of feathered 80's hair in that show.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Saw this with the wife yesterday. We liked it. I may have some minor quibbles but it seemed to be fairly accurate. You have to suspend disbelief in some instances I will not mention to avoid spoilers. The pacing fell off a bit in places but, in all, it was worthwhile. Not an academy award winner, though.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Any talking animals? Maybe I can go see it too.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
No talking animals, mostly dead. Definitely not suitable for children.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
jon-nyc
Oct 20 2014, 04:26 AM
Any talking animals? Maybe I can go see it too.
Leave the kid at home. :tsktsk:

This is a war movie, with all the violence of armored combat.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
A bit more background:

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/david-rae-kept-fury-authentic-59afc67ebf11
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
Saw it today and was very impressed. So pleased that Shia LeBoeuf was almost unrecognizable. Very gritty, dirty film. Looked very cold too. The entire film felt unpleasant, as it should.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
What I really would have loved would have been to also see inside the Tiger during the tank fight. Kind of a hypercharged, landlocked The Enemy Below.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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