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Will Math Make You Richer? Fed Study Doesn't Prove It; HMC reference!
Topic Started: Nov 3 2013, 01:29 PM (293 Views)
brenda
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..............
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-01/will-math-make-you-richer-fed-study-doesnt-prove-it

Quote:
 
A study released today by the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland argues that studying more math in high school will make you more successful later in life. “Even among workers with the same level of education, those with more math have higher wages on average and are less likely to be unemployed,” says the commentary by former Cleveland Fed research economist Jon James.

This is an important question, and James is in good company. James Simons, who was one of the world’s most successful hedge fund managers, is a top mathematician, after all. Math “seemed like the world’s greatest career,” Simons told an MIT audience three years ago.

But others argue that making calculus a prerequisite needlessly dissuades many people from going into scientific and technical fields that really don’t require the skill. “Teach statistics before calculus,” argues Arthur Benjamin, a self-described mathematician at Harvey Mudd College.

The parade of graphs in the Cleveland Fed paper showing a link between math studies and later success proves precisely nothing. After all, it could be that people take more math in high school because they’re smarter than classmates who go equally far in their education, are harder working, or both. They succeed in their careers because of those qualities, not because they know that the derivative of cos(x) is -sin(x).

James acknowledges this causality problem at the end of his commentary. He defends himself by saying another study, “using more sophisticated methods, finds similar results to the ones presented here.” That one, by two researchers from the Public Policy Institute of California, appeared in 2004 in the Review of Economics & Statistics. James may be right after all. But as the debate continues over when, where, and what kind of math education has value, this piece by itself doesn’t offer a reason to sign up for calculus.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
I share the view that Statistics has more practical applications than Calculus for most people. "Teach Statistics before Calculus" is a sentiment that I share.
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Horace
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HOLY CARP!!!
Math is one of those subjects that requires some ability rather than just some effort, so it would stand to reason that people with ability will do better over the long haul. Actually knowing the math is probably not very relevant. But I agree with the HMC guy that statistics is more important and widely applicable than calculus.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Nov 3 2013, 01:51 PM
I share the view that Statistics has more practical applications than Calculus for most people. "Teach Statistics before Calculus" is a sentiment that I share.
What exactly do you mean by "calculus" here?
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus
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Kincaid
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HOLY CARP!!!
brenda
Nov 3 2013, 01:29 PM
“Teach statistics before calculus,” argues Arthur Benjamin, a self-described mathematician at Harvey Mudd College.
What the hell does this mean? He is not a real mathematician?
Edited by Kincaid, Nov 3 2013, 03:09 PM.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Copper
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Shortstop

Go to business school then you can hire all the mathematicians you want.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
I didn't know that successul now isn't just a polite euphemism for rich, but has attained the title of synonym.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Nov 3 2013, 03:47 PM
I didn't know that successul now isn't just a polite euphemism for rich, ...
Not just "now." It has been that way for a long time.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Aqua Letifer
Nov 3 2013, 03:47 PM
I didn't know that successful know isn't just a polite euphemism for rich, but has attained the title of synonym.
Yeah you did.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Copper
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Shortstop

After Mr. Obama makes us all equal how will we know who is successful?
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
It won't matter because no one will be.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Klaus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Axtremus
Nov 3 2013, 01:51 PM
I share the view that Statistics has more practical applications than Calculus for most people. "Teach Statistics before Calculus" is a sentiment that I share.
The article says that people don't need to know that "the derivative of cos(x) is -sin(x)". But people won't need to know what a Markov process or a regression analysis is, either.

The reason why graduates in mathematics are highly sought after is usually not the math skills they have but the skills they have that make them understand math skills. This "meta skill" is usually called abstraction.

To me this suggests that pupils should predominantly learn branches of mathematics that maximize that skill. The best candidates for that are from algebra, such as abstract and universal algebra, topology, or category theory.

The first thing we should ban from the math class room are numbers.
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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John D'Oh
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MAMIL
Copper
Nov 3 2013, 06:09 PM
After Mr. Obama makes us all equal how will we know who is successful?
The successful people will be the ones who don't drone on and on about Obama, regardless of the topic being discussed?
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Copper
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Shortstop
John D'Oh
Nov 4 2013, 05:20 AM
Copper
Nov 3 2013, 06:09 PM
After Mr. Obama makes us all equal how will we know who is successful?
The successful people will be the ones who don't drone on and on about Obama, regardless of the topic being discussed?

Not until they learn to use a question mark.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Axtremus
Nov 3 2013, 04:45 PM
Aqua Letifer
Nov 3 2013, 03:47 PM
I didn't know that successul now isn't just a polite euphemism for rich, ...
Not just "now." It has been that way for a long time.
For vain materialists like yourself maybe.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
:lol2:

Financial security is just one part of success.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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VPG
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Pisa-Carp
Klaus
Nov 4 2013, 03:14 AM
Axtremus
Nov 3 2013, 01:51 PM
I share the view that Statistics has more practical applications than Calculus for most people. "Teach Statistics before Calculus" is a sentiment that I share.
The article says that people don't need to know that "the derivative of cos(x) is -sin(x)". But people won't need to know what a Markov process or a regression analysis is, either.

The reason why graduates in mathematics are highly sought after is usually not the math skills they have but the skills they have that make them understand math skills. This "meta skill" is usually called abstraction.

To me this suggests that pupils should predominantly learn branches of mathematics that maximize that skill. The best candidates for that are from algebra, such as abstract and universal algebra, topology, or category theory.

The first thing we should ban from the math class room are numbers.
You know? The only time I understand anything Klaus say's is when he talks about food............or women. Bier!
I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Nov 4 2013, 06:16 AM
Financial security is just one part of success.
Ooohh, very smooth using the term "financial security" instead of the word "rich" to partially define "success." :thumb: :thumb:
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Aqua Letifer
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ZOOOOOM!
Axtremus
Nov 4 2013, 08:10 AM
Mikhailoh
Nov 4 2013, 06:16 AM
Financial security is just one part of success.
Ooohh, very smooth using the term "financial security" instead of the word "rich" to partially define "success." :thumb: :thumb:
Wouldn't expect you to know the difference.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Axtremus
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HOLY CARP!!!
Aqua Letifer
Nov 4 2013, 08:40 AM
Axtremus
Nov 4 2013, 08:10 AM
Mikhailoh
Nov 4 2013, 06:16 AM
Financial security is just one part of success.
Ooohh, very smooth using the term "financial security" instead of the word "rich" to partially define "success." :thumb: :thumb:
Wouldn't expect you to know the difference.
It's just going to get even more confusing when we get to "financial independence" and "material abundance." And get ready to toast (or bug out) when we get to "post-scarcity."
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brenda
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..............
Klaus
Nov 4 2013, 03:14 AM
Axtremus
Nov 3 2013, 01:51 PM
I share the view that Statistics has more practical applications than Calculus for most people. "Teach Statistics before Calculus" is a sentiment that I share.
The article says that people don't need to know that "the derivative of cos(x) is -sin(x)". But people won't need to know what a Markov process or a regression analysis is, either.

The reason why graduates in mathematics are highly sought after is usually not the math skills they have but the skills they have that make them understand math skills. This "meta skill" is usually called abstraction.

To me this suggests that pupils should predominantly learn branches of mathematics that maximize that skill. The best candidates for that are from algebra, such as abstract and universal algebra, topology, or category theory.

The first thing we should ban from the math class room are numbers.
Klaus gets it. Of course, he's a math dude. :)
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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