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140,000; It's a Minesooota thing...
Topic Started: Oct 31 2013, 04:03 PM (267 Views)
Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
http://www.startribune.com/politics/229978591.html
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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brenda
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..............
Some parts of the state have very limited options under the new MNsure program for accessing health insurance. Until a day or so ago, my region had only one MNsure coverage option. Just one.
“Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them.”
~A.A. Milne
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Much of Louisiana has only one option.

People ain't happy...notice Mary Landrieu is already trying to modify the law. I think she's worried about her seat.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
On NPR this morning they were discussing the fact that there is no way to distinguish between policies that cover abortion and those that do not.

Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
Quote:
 
At least 140,000 Minnesotans will lose current health policies


Because they are scam policies. There is no "there" there. If anyone actually tried to use one of those policies they would find the cover nothing at all.

Rather than gripe about the ACA the good people of Minnesota should be organizing a recall campaign against their insurance commissioner.
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Jolly
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Steve Miller
Nov 1 2013, 05:44 PM
Quote:
 
At least 140,000 Minnesotans will lose current health policies


Because they are scam policies. There is no "there" there. If anyone actually tried to use one of those policies they would find the cover nothing at all.

Rather than gripe about the ACA the good people of Minnesota should be organizing a recall campaign against their insurance commissioner.
Scam policies?

Drinking the kool-aid, long and deep, aren't you Steve?

How do you know what was in these policies? Fact is, you don't. You're just parroting the latest line from the Obamatrons, as they try to cover up this turd called Obamacare.

Personally, I think Americans are smart enough to purchase the coverage they need, rather than the government mandating what they should want...at a price they cannot afford. Isn't this wonderful?

Just think...Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you...Now, first, we'll have to take your healthcare away...Oh, don't worry, we're going to make those mean, old insurance companies give you access to better policies...What's that you say? Your premium has tripled, the coverage is only marginally better and you can't afford to be insured any longer?

Oh, we'll fix that - we'll take your money away from your tax refund. Lord knows some other sucker, er, Obama supporter needs it.

And that crap about keeping your healthcare, if you liked your current policy? We wuz just funnin.

Y'all have a nice day...
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Steve Miller
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Jolly
Nov 2 2013, 05:04 AM
Personally, I think Americans are smart enough to purchase the coverage they need

Oh?

Have you actually read your own policy? The whole thing? If you haven't, how do you know what your policy covers?

Do you know anyone who has lost their house due to medical bills even though they thought they had great medical insurance? Have you spoken to them of their experience and asked why they didn't read their policy? Did you ask them how come they bought such a crappy medical policy? What did they tell you?

Do you believe that Americans have the right to buy tainted meat, even if they don't know it's tainted? Spoiled milk?

If you going to be responsible for medical bills racked up by people with crappy insurance (and you are, through higher premiums, etc.) do you think you should have some input in to how insurance companies are required to behave?

Do you believe it's the God-given right of every insurance company to extract every cent they can from the public without regard for the harm they cause to society at large?

Can you answer any of these questions without using the word "Obama"? :wave:
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VPG
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Have you ever heard the words "Crappy Health Care Plan" before the DNC sent out the Memo of talking points.
Blue Cross writes crappy plans? United Health care writes crappy plans? Has the DNC ever read our plans?
What percentage of current plans do you KNOW (!) are crappy that are in use at this time?
What are the chances of you getting pregnant, now that you will be covered?
I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Have I read my health plan?

Of course!

And being the generous person I am, I'll let you read it, too:

http://www.bcbsla.com/Docs/40HR1695_0113_OGB_PPO_BP.pdf

Quote:
 
Do you know anyone who has lost their house due to medical bills even though they thought they had great medical insurance?
Do you know anyone who has declared bankruptcy after running up astronomical medical bills and left the doctors and the hospitals to eat the losses? Do you think people who are going to buy Obamacare policies with $15K deductibles are EVER going to pay the money owed? Or do you think they'll let their health care providers go hang for that $15K? Personally, I think most folks are pretty good at manipulating money and the health care system.

Quote:
 
Do you believe that Americans have the right to buy tainted meat, even if they don't know it's tainted? Spoiled milk?


Excuse me, but what does that have to do with this discussion, unless you're trying to draw the FDA into this in some obtuse, unfathomable way?

Quote:
 
If you going to be responsible for medical bills racked up by people with crappy insurance (and you are, through higher premiums, etc.) do you think you should have some input in to how insurance companies are required to behave?


First and foremost, I don't think I should be responsible for anybody's healthcare but mine and my family's. Yes, I understand the need for basic services, but I can also understand Medicaid is only meant as a temporary measure, until people can do better. As for Medicare, citizens pay for their Medicare...shame they have to pay for all the flotsom and jetsam that has invaded the system. Much of that, though, like making your children do poorly in school, so they qualify for a SSI check and medical care, is the result of those poor, dumb people working the system to the nth degree.

Quote:
 
Do you believe it's the God-given right of every insurance company to extract every cent they can from the public without regard for the harm they cause to society at large?
You do realize that insurance companies operate health plans on an average of 4% profit? No, that's not altruistic, it's business...But how would you like to run your business on 4% profit? And what is the basis for lambasting health care companies for the harm they cause the public at large? Doesn't make any sense.

Lastly, can you refute any criticism of the AFCA, without parroting the Democrat Party's talking points?

The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Oh, and BTW...

"If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan."


Ya know, I made that bigger and in bold, so I could examine it closely...I can't find the word "crappy" anywhere in that statement.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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VPG
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Jolly
Nov 2 2013, 09:13 AM
Have I read my health plan?

Of course!

And being the generous person I am, I'll let you read it, too:

http://www.bcbsla.com/Docs/40HR1695_0113_OGB_PPO_BP.pdf

Quote:
 
Do you know anyone who has lost their house due to medical bills even though they thought they had great medical insurance?
Do you know anyone who has declared bankruptcy after running up astronomical medical bills and left the doctors and the hospitals to eat the losses? Do you think people who are going to buy Obamacare policies with $15K deductibles are EVER going to pay the money owed? Or do you think they'll let their health care providers go hang for that $15K? Personally, I think most folks are pretty good at manipulating money and the health care system.

Quote:
 
Do you believe that Americans have the right to buy tainted meat, even if they don't know it's tainted? Spoiled milk?


Excuse me, but what does that have to do with this discussion, unless you're trying to draw the FDA into this in some obtuse, unfathomable way?

Quote:
 
If you going to be responsible for medical bills racked up by people with crappy insurance (and you are, through higher premiums, etc.) do you think you should have some input in to how insurance companies are required to behave?


First and foremost, I don't think I should be responsible for anybody's healthcare but mine and my family's. Yes, I understand the need for basic services, but I can also understand Medicaid is only meant as a temporary measure, until people can do better. As for Medicare, citizens pay for their Medicare...shame they have to pay for all the flotsom and jetsam that has invaded the system. Much of that, though, like making your children do poorly in school, so they qualify for a SSI check and medical care, is the result of those poor, dumb people working the system to the nth degree.

Quote:
 
Do you believe it's the God-given right of every insurance company to extract every cent they can from the public without regard for the harm they cause to society at large?
You do realize that insurance companies operate health plans on an average of 4% profit? No, that's not altruistic, it's business...But how would you like to run your business on 4% profit? And what is the basis for lambasting health care companies for the harm they cause the public at large? Doesn't make any sense.

Lastly, can you refute any criticism of the AFCA, without parroting the Democrat Party's talking points?

I basiclly said that right above you, only shorter. :cool:
I'M NOT YELLING.........I'M ITALIAN...........THAT'S HOW WE TALK!


"People say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look."
Ronald Reagan, Inaugural, 1971

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Steve Miller
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Quote:
 
Have you ever heard the words "Crappy Health Care Plan" before the DNC sent out the Memo of talking points.


Yup. I've heard it several times from folks who shelled out good money for insurance for years only to find that they were not covered for whatever happened. Story below, if you're interested.

And I've used it more than once to describe my own plan, despite what it costs and the fact is is a plan good enough to comply with ACA requirements.

Quote:
 
What percentage of current plans do you KNOW (!) are crappy that are in use at this time?


Dunno, but according to the article some 140K people in MN that have plans that don't don't meet minimum requirements. Those sound like some pretty crappy plans to me. The news tells me that MN is not the only place where people are discovering that they have been paying for the insurance equivalent of spoiled food - you can't use it even though you've paid for it.

State insurance commissioners are supposed to protect their constituents from predatory policies such as those, but so many of them come from the industry (CA included) they don't always do a good job. I'm pleased to see a floor on what is acceptable and what is not.

Is the floor properly set? I have no idea. It may be too high. I'd like to see a discussion on just what the floor is, how it was determined and whether or not it is appropriate.

Quote:
 
What are the chances of you getting pregnant, now that you will be covered?


Nil - and my insurance company knows that. They also know I am not likely to need treatment for sickle cell anemia, vaginal warts or juvenile diabetes. In theory at least, my premium reflects these facts.

Quote:
 
Blue Cross writes crappy plans? United Health care writes crappy plans?


Blue Cross wrote mine. These things vary all over the place by state however; they may well write only great policies in states with stricter regulations.
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Steve Miller
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Quote:
 
Have I read my health plan?

Of course!

And being the generous person I am, I'll let you read it, too:


That's some fine coverage right there, assuming you can trust what it says on the face of it. Maybe you can - you are in the biz and are in a good position to judge such things. I, unfortunately, am not and neither are the vast majority of Americans. I will say the clear/concise wording is a refreshing change from some policies I have read. I had coverage like that too when I worked for the big corporation. Now that I am self employed with a pre-existing condition there is no way I could afford coverage like that, and up until the ACA I couldn't get coverage at all except through my wife's employer.

One thing for sure, your policy will certainly meet the minimum requirements of the ACA so you have nothing to fear. Nice to see there are no longer provisions for existing conditions in policies like yours, and no lifetime cap. Your kids can stay on your policy until they are in their late 20's (IIRC) as well.

Quote:
 
Do you know anyone who has declared bankruptcy after running up astronomical medical bills and left the doctors and the hospitals to eat the losses?


Yup - and it's not right. Not right at all. Hospitals and doctors need to be paid for what they do.

The family I know personally had no intention of ever doing anything like that and paid a hefty sum for what they thought was great insurance. They didn't discover they'd been had until their 16 year old son developed bone cancer and the bills started coming in. $30K, every three weeks. Exclusions, double talk, exceptions, runarounds - they got it all. Everything except payment for the hospital. Ruined them financially and the poor kid died after about 14 months anyway.

I would hope that the minimum requirement provision in the ACA will help families like theirs pay their medical bills so the healthcare providers and get what they're owed.

Quote:
 
Do you think people who are going to buy Obamacare policies with $15K deductibles are EVER going to pay the money owed? Or do you think they'll let their health care providers go hang for that $15K.


$15K? Probably, although I can see a case for making sure compliant policies includse lower deductibles than that. Even so - it's not that much in the grand scheme of things - not much more than a 4 hour visit to the ER will cost if it turns out you don't have anything wrong with you or a good used pickup. Easy enough to get via liens and wage garnishment in any event.

Compare that with the $1 mil you are likely to come up short if someone in your family gets really sick and you find out your coverage doesn't cover you. Or you hit the policy limit - which used to be pretty easy to do.

Quote:
 
Personally, I think most folks are pretty good at manipulating money and the health care system.


True, and if my kid was sick I would do exactly the same thing. So would you.

Quote:
 
Do you believe that Americans have the right to buy tainted meat, even if they don't know it's tainted? Spoiled milk?


Quote:
 
Excuse me, but what does that have to do with this discussion, unless you're trying to draw the FDA into this in some obtuse, unfathomable way?


Buying insurance policies that don't provide coverage when you need it is like buying spoiled meat. You may have paid for it but you cannot eat it. There are regulations forbidding the sale of spoiled meat and they are not unlike the new regulations pertaining to the sale of insurance policies that don't provide coverage when you need it.

I view these regulations as good.

Quote:
 
If you going to be responsible for medical bills racked up by people with crappy insurance (and you are, through higher premiums, etc.) do you think you should have some input in to how insurance companies are required to behave?


Quote:
 
First and foremost, I don't think I should be responsible for anybody's healthcare but mine and my family's.


That's my point too, and in an odd way we agree on this. Your own example points out that if people don't have adequate insurance they run up the bills and get the treatment anyway. You - and I - pay for that in higher premiums. Maybe this new system (which I don't like much more than you do, BTW) will help alleviate that somewhat. More people with adequate insurance = more reliable income stream for hospitals.

So you and I are paying for it and I want to make sure that I am getting what I pay for. I expect you do too.

Quote:
 
Yes, I understand the need for basic services, but I can also understand Medicaid is only meant as a temporary measure, until people can do better. As for Medicare, citizens pay for their Medicare...shame they have to pay for all the flotsom and jetsam that has invaded the system.


No argument on the flotsam and jetsam. I'd like to see the system (and it's a damned big system) repaired such that the taxpayer - and the recipient - get better value for the money spent. I'd also like to see increased reimbursement rates for healthcare providers. Good luck with that though - as it stands now all the noise is about cutting/eliminating the program, not fixing it.

OTOH, it appears that the largest single group of people signing up under the new rules are people who are eligible under the expanded Medicare provision. I view this as good because as crappy as it is, the Medicare program does have cost controls built in. They may not be the right ones but they are there, which is more than be said for the private plans mandated by the ACA. I can see widening the eligibility over time and eventually ending up with some sort of single-payer with Medicare+ policies arrangement for folks who need it most.

Quote:
 
Do you believe it's the God-given right of every insurance company to extract every cent they can from the public without regard for the harm they cause to society at large?


Quote:
 
You do realize that insurance companies operate health plans on an average of 4% profit? No, that's not altruistic, it's business...But how would you like to run your business on 4% profit? And what is the basis for lambasting health care companies for the harm they cause the public at large? Doesn't make any sense.


Fraud is fraud, and their profit margin is not really my concern. If a guy is going to pay for an insurance policy he should be able to expect it will cover him in time of need. For some 140K people in MN, such was not the case. Now it might be.

As I stated before, the floor may be placed wrong but I view it as being better than no floor at all. Perhaps you disagree - how?

Quote:
 
Lastly, can you refute any criticism of the AFCA, without parroting the Democrat Party's talking points?


Democratic. The Democratic Party. :cool2:
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Copper
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Steve Miller
Nov 2 2013, 07:50 AM

Have you actually read your own policy?

I really got a kick out of it the other day when the experts all lit up at once with this "scam policy" thing.

All of a sudden, right out of thin air, all at the same time as Mr. Obama.

Amazing.

Yes, I have read my policy, even the updates that come in the mail periodically.

I'd tell you how it compares to my obamacare options but I haven't been able to get to them yet.

Until then I have to depend on guys like you repeating the CNN expert analysis.
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Steve Miller
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Copper
Nov 2 2013, 04:46 PM
All of a sudden, right out of thin air, all at the same time as Mr. Obama.

Shortly following hysterical newspaper stories about people having to change policies because their policies did not meet minimum requirements.

Odd, that.
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Copper
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Steve Miller
Nov 2 2013, 05:12 PM
Copper
Nov 2 2013, 04:46 PM
All of a sudden, right out of thin air, all at the same time as Mr. Obama.

Shortly following hysterical newspaper stories about people having to change policies because their policies did not meet minimum requirements.

Odd, that.

But the president said the minimum requirement is that you "like it".
The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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Steve Miller
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Copper
Nov 2 2013, 05:41 PM
Steve Miller
Nov 2 2013, 05:12 PM
Copper
Nov 2 2013, 04:46 PM
All of a sudden, right out of thin air, all at the same time as Mr. Obama.

Shortly following hysterical newspaper stories about people having to change policies because their policies did not meet minimum requirements.

Odd, that.

But the president said the minimum requirement is that you "like it".
What is there to like about a plan that doesn't meet minimum requirements?
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