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| U.S. Roman Catholic Church And Protestant Denominations Agree To Recognize Each Other's Baptisms; Finally | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 1 2013, 10:16 AM (613 Views) | |
| John D'Oh | Feb 2 2013, 09:07 AM Post #26 |
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MAMIL
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The former Italian colony that used to be known has Limbo is now closed to visitors and had declared itself an independent self-governing socialist republic. You can try and go there, but getting a Visa is bloody impossible, since they've retained the Italian approach to governmental organisation. There isn't any. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| ivorythumper | Feb 2 2013, 01:20 PM Post #27 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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The bottom line here is that some Protestant churches that had been baptizing using other formulas have now agreed to use the Trinitarian formula. The Catholic Church has always recognized Protestant baptisms (I don't even know of any legislation against them during the height of the Reformation antagonism and polemics) provided that they baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and they intend to do what the Church does (incorporation in the body of Christ, cleansing of sin, new life in Christ). Not doing so posed a problem for those, for instance, wishing to marry in the Catholic Church since the baptism may be dubious. There was already agreement with the mainline Protestants who already were doing so. The other part was for the other groups to keep baptismal records, which I guess they are now agreeing to do. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| John D'Oh | Feb 2 2013, 05:59 PM Post #28 |
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MAMIL
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I'm sure God is absolutely enthralled by this. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Horace | Feb 2 2013, 06:03 PM Post #29 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Not if it's a big discussion, but I would have thought there were well-defined rules for such basic things, for any given denomination. Well maybe I wouldn't have thought that, but at least I hoped it. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Dewey | Feb 2 2013, 06:06 PM Post #30 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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These particular Protestant denominations have always baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. They have also always accepted as valid the baptism of incoming members who were baptized in the RCC, or any other tradition which baptized in the same manner. Despite that, the unofficial agreement between these groups and the RCC was not being uniformly accepted in the opposite direction, which is why the official signing of the agreement was an important step in ecumenical relations. Now if we could work on the whole "closed table" absurdity, we'd be making serious progress.
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Dewey | Feb 2 2013, 06:10 PM Post #31 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Oh, silly man... |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| John D'Oh | Feb 2 2013, 06:13 PM Post #32 |
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MAMIL
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As Dave Allen used to say "In the name of the father, the name of the son, and into the hole he goes". Oh sorry, that's funerals, not the baby dunking. |
| What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket? | |
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| Horace | Feb 2 2013, 06:14 PM Post #33 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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isn't there some denomination that believes baptism is required for going to heaven? I thought I saw that somewhere. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| Dewey | Feb 2 2013, 06:43 PM Post #34 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I'll let others address that for their own tradition. In ours, it is not the case. We believe that salvation is something that God does, and the timing of that salvation is up to God and is not dependent upon when a believer schedules a baptism. In other words, if a person entered the faith and was on his way to the church to be baptized, but got run over by a bus, one needn't worry that he wouldn't get to heaven because he hadn't been baptized. Same with children who die unbaptized. But we also go further than the exceptional instances I just offered, because we also believe that there are others in heaven who were not Christian at all. Again, people's salvation is something that's achieved by God, and wherever, whenever, however, and to whomever, God chooses. This means that while we believe that Christ's life, death, and resurrection was the vehicle through which humanity is become reconciled to God, we don't know fully how that works - and we categorically do not say that it only works by individuals getting down on their knees, praying the four-step prayer, and making Jesus their "personal Lord and Savior" - that while that's one way that God implements Christs reconciling work, that there are others that are not fully known or understood by us, so there are most definitely non-Christians in heaven. It's actually a lot more complicated than just that; I'm just offering a thumbnail sketch of the theology here. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Horace | Feb 2 2013, 06:53 PM Post #35 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Sounds good to me, Dewey. The more "judgement of others" is removed from our mortal comprehension of any given religion, the better, as far as I'm concerned. Make it all about acting well in this mortal life, and less about winning in the afterlife. |
| As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good? | |
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| musicasacra | Feb 2 2013, 07:01 PM Post #36 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Better start with the Lutherans first on that one. |
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| Dewey | Feb 2 2013, 07:08 PM Post #37 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No, I'm welcome to participate - and even serve - in their Eucharist. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| musicasacra | Feb 2 2013, 11:26 PM Post #38 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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How about Missouri Synod? |
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| Axtremus | Feb 3 2013, 12:41 AM Post #39 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I kept telling all y'all ... Eternal supply of good beer and great sex in the afterlife. |
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| Dewey | Feb 3 2013, 04:56 AM Post #40 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No, I'm talking about real Lutherans.
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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12:37 AM Jul 11