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U.S. Roman Catholic Church And Protestant Denominations Agree To Recognize Each Other's Baptisms; Finally
Topic Started: Feb 1 2013, 10:16 AM (612 Views)
Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Something long in the works, and often - but not always - recognized even without official hierarchical sanction. It's about time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/catholic-protestant-baptism-recognize_n_2575915.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

U.S. Roman Catholic Church And Protestant Denominations Agree To Recognize Each Other's Baptisms

Posted: 01/29/2013 3:37 pm EST | Updated: 01/29/2013 5:17 pm EST


In a monumental occasion for ecumenical relations, the U.S. Roman Catholic church and a group of Protestant denominations plan to sign a document on Tuesday evening to formally agree to recognize each other's baptisms.

Catholic leaders will join representatives from the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), Christian Reformed Church in North America, Reformed Church in America and United Church of Christ at the ceremony in Austin, Texas, to sign the agreement, which is called the "Common Agreement on Mutual Recognition of Baptism." The event coincides with the national meeting of Christian Churches Together in the U.S.A.

Currently, the Protestant churches recognize Roman Catholic baptisms, but the Catholic church does not always recognize theirs. The mutual agreement on baptisms, a key sacrament in the churches, has been discussed between denominational leadership for seven years and hinges in part on invoking trinity of the "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" during the baptism.

In a report in the Austin American-Statesman, Bishop Joe Vasquez of the Diocese Austin told the newspaper that the effort "is part of our response to Jesus' prayer that 'we all be one.'"

The Roman Catholic church as a whole has generally recognized the baptisms of most mainstream Christian denominations since the Second Vatican Council, a series of historic church meetings from 1962 to 1965, but the formal baptism agreement is the first of its kind for the U.S. church.

According to a prior statement from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which was released in 2010 when bishops were deliberating the agreement, the understanding between the churches "affirms that both Catholic and Reformed Christians hold that baptism is the sacramental bond of unity for the Body of Christ, which is to be performed only once, by an authorized minister, with flowing water, using the Scriptural Trinitarian formula of 'Father, Son and Holy Spirit.' The agreement encourages all local Christian communities to keep baptismal records."

The Austin newspaper reported that Tuesday's agreement says that “for our baptisms to be mutually recognized, water and the scriptural Trinitarian formula 'Father, Son, and Holy Spirit' (Matthew 28: 19-20) must be used in the baptismal rite."

The earlier bishops' statement explained the origins of the agreement:

In 2002, concerns over certain practices (such as baptism by sprinkling) and spoken formulas (such as baptism in the name of the Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier) used by some Christians led the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity to urge national bishops’ conferences to study their mutual understanding of baptism with other Christians. These questions were examined and resolved by Round Seven of the Reformed-Roman Catholic Dialogue-USA, which produced the Common Agreement, as well as a study entitled “These Living Waters.”

The agreement was first approved in 2008 by the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). American Catholic leaders voted on the it in 2010 and the agreement was later approved by the governing bodies of the Christian Reformed Church in North America, Reformed Church in America and United Church of Christ.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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KlavierBauer
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I didn't realize that was an issue...

The Orthodox recognize any baptism, considering it to be the only sacrament that anyone can perform.
Well - I think that's their policy...
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Mark
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Our church recognizes "one baptism". When the Mrs. and our children converted, their Lutheran Baptism was recognized by the Catholic Church and they did not have to get baptized again.
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Luke's Dad
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We don't (and won't anytime soon).
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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KlavierBauer
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That's how it would be in the Orthodox church as well.

Given that it hasn't historically been a sacrament that can only be served by clergy (unlike communion), I'm surprised there's much debate about it. Either someone is baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or they are not - what's to quibble about?
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
Infant and young child baptism for one thing.

Some believe that a Baptism must be part of a conscious and educated choice. You need to understand the Baptism, what it means, and choose to undertake it. For infants and young children we have a "dedication" procedure instead.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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KlavierBauer
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I understand that - but that is not an issue of jurisdiction, but one of theological difference in understanding of baptism.

I don't understand - age aside - why one would out-of-hand disregard the baptism of another denomination who follows the Nicene Creed?
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Luke's Dad
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All depends on one very significant point: "acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins"

How do you define for? We see it as meaning "because of". We tend to see Baptism as an outward expression of what has happened internally. We don't see the act of baptism as one that justifies us.
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Mark
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I baptize myself twice most Sunday mornings. :angel:
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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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Dewey
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Actually, KB, there are a number of Protestant traditions that specifically don't use the "tripartite formula" for baptism, believing that it is only proper to baptize "in the name of Jesus." I'm sure that the RCC, the GOC, and I know we Presbies would not accept that as a proper baptism.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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musicasacra
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I didn't know this was an issue that needed an agreement. If I had told Fr. C. that I was baptized in an independent church he had never heard of, he would have baptized me since he couldn't verify if the Trinitarian formula was used. But since I said Lutheran, it was jolly good and onward.
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Aqua Letifer
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musicasacra
Feb 1 2013, 04:40 PM
I didn't know this was an issue that needed an agreement.
+1.
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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Dewey
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Sadly, it did.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Horace
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Does "accepting baptisms" from other denominations have anything to do with the rules a denomination might believe regarding who goes to heaven?
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Kincaid
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And funny thing is it all started with a Jewish guy baptizing another Jewish guy.
Kincaid - disgusted Republican Partisan since 2006.
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Aqua Letifer
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:lol:
I cite irreconcilable differences.
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John D'Oh
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Horace
Feb 1 2013, 06:31 PM
Does "accepting baptisms" from other denominations have anything to do with the rules a denomination might believe regarding who goes to heaven?
If the rules have changed, presumably that means that God has changed his mind about who he lets through the pearly gates. I wonder if the Big Guy has a statute of limitations on that ruling.

In fact, I wonder if He takes any bloody notice whatsoever of what the various churches think of each other. My guess would be he's too busy worrying about the fact that the Antichrist is currently occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue (and not for the first time!) to be bothered with that sort of micro-management.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Copper
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Shortstop

Hey.

The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy
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John D'Oh
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Hi all.

I've spent the last forty days fasting and meditating. Oh sorry, not meditating, medicating - I knew it was one of those.
What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?
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Klaus
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John D'Oh is back :excited:

Glad to see you again!
Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman
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Horace
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John D'Oh
Feb 2 2013, 05:36 AM
Horace
Feb 1 2013, 06:31 PM
Does "accepting baptisms" from other denominations have anything to do with the rules a denomination might believe regarding who goes to heaven?
If the rules have changed, presumably that means that God has changed his mind about who he lets through the pearly gates.
Yep that's where I was going with that.
As a good person, I implore you to do as I, a good person, do. Be good. Do NOT be bad. If you see bad, end bad. End it in yourself, and end it in others. By any means necessary, the good must conquer the bad. Good people know this. Do you know this? Are you good?
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Dewey
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Horace, that would precipate two separate discussions - does the act of baptism itself convey salvation; and does a person have to be baptized to enter heaven. Do you really want to go either of those places? ^_^
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Pastor Fuzz
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Maybe Horace wants to go to Limbo instead.
"Catholic guilt is amazing stuff. You could use it to clean an oven.” The Daily Mash 25 February 2013
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Luke's Dad
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Dewey
Feb 2 2013, 08:17 AM
Horace, that would precipate two separate discussions - does the act of baptism itself convey salvation; and does a person have to be baptized to enter heaven. Do you really want to go either of those places? ^_^
Oh, it's on now!
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
:sword:




(not)
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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