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| Grammar question; double possessive | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 21 2012, 05:17 AM (461 Views) | |
| Klaus | Nov 21 2012, 08:48 AM Post #26 |
HOLY CARP!!!
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| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| JBryan | Nov 21 2012, 08:50 AM Post #27 |
I am the grey one
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Das habe Ich mir gedacht. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Klaus | Nov 21 2012, 08:54 AM Post #28 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Falsch gedacht, das Verb steht oft nicht am Ende! |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| JBryan | Nov 21 2012, 08:57 AM Post #29 |
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I am the grey one
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Just messin' with you Klaus. Your command of English might be better than mine, never mind German. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Klaus | Nov 21 2012, 09:09 AM Post #30 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Same here  You have a point, though, that the sentence structure in German can be organized in a different way than in English. In particular, we can nest sentences in a different and more sophisticated way. You may need to keep a stack of semi-finished sentences in mind because they are finished only many lines later. Some German authors, such as Thomas Mann or Heinrich von Kleist, are (in)famous for using deeply nested sentences such as this one from Kleist: "Er unterhandelte noch, in der ersten Station, mit den Wirtsleuten, über die Art und Weise, wie er seiner wieder los werden könne: als er schon auf Befehl der Polizei, welche davon Wind bekommen hatte, arretiert und unter einer Bedeckung, er, sein Sohn und Nicolo, so hieß der kranke Knabe, wieder nach Ragusa zurück transportiert ward." Sometimes the last word in a long sentence can also completely revert the meaning of the sentence. For instance, in ""Lange freuen konnte sich Leverkusens Trainer Michael Skibbe, der einst elf Jahre in Dortmund arbeitete, über die Führung nicht" the last word, "nicht", reverses the meaning of the full sentence. |
| Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Nov 21 2012, 09:17 AM Post #31 |
ZOOOOOM!
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Oh yeah. Derrida. I've spent some time there.  (My background is in writing, so my understanding of deconstruction and Derrida's work comes from literary theory and post-structuralism. That's how I approach his work, because that's the framework from which I learned about it. A linguist or anthropologist might have a different way of viewing it, or might have studied elements I am not familiar with.) Structuralism wasn't perfect but in my opinion literary critics and theorists started to disappear up their own asshole about the time Derrida and Deleuze arrived on the scene, and full asshattery was achieved some time in the past 30 years. I dismiss almost all of it outright. I think it's ironic that as much as deconstructionists like to dismiss history and social influence, it's impossible not to notice that their theories fall very much in line with the drastic societal changes that were going on at the time their founders were producing their best work. They too are "slaves" to the very influences they claim to have detached from. Look, we are a product of our times. No one is above that. To try to claim otherwise is to indulge in mania. Our social and personal histories absolutely shape who we are, nevermind something so trivial as how we learn how to express ourselves. And author intent is still the most important factor to consider when interpreting a text because they ****ing wrote it. The intent begins with them, the creators of the work. You can play little mind games all you want and have lesbian, polyamorous feminist interpretations of All About Eve to give yourself something to do on a Friday night, but at the end of the day, the story is still about a scheming bitch who wants to be famous. Your published paper in the Under-Represented Minority Literary Review isn't going to change that. Some of Derrida's work is helpful. It never hurts to revisit the actual relationship between words and the ideas they represent, and sure, it's important to be able to read a text in a number of different ways in order to fully understand its components. But to me these are just small nuggets of useful tools and ideas amongst a giant intellectual poo heap created by hippies who should have had more romps in the open field instead of subjecting us to insane notions regarding language and theory. Again, I'm biased. I prefer structuralism, and so I think the vast majority of language theory produced after the 1950s is total horse****. But sure, I'd say it's worth a serious look anyway because I think I'd be in the minority opinion these days. We are, after all, a product of our times. |
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| JBryan | Nov 21 2012, 09:23 AM Post #32 |
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I am the grey one
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I can see how that can lead to some severe misunderstandings with people coming to their feet, fire in their eyes until the very last word of the sentence. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Nov 21 2012, 09:26 AM Post #33 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Kafka liked to do that a lot, only to achieve the opposite effect: often he'd string a fairly long and mundane sentence together, but then throw a curveball at the end. Heck, he even does it in the first line of Metamorphosis:
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| JBryan | Nov 21 2012, 09:45 AM Post #34 |
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I am the grey one
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I think I read about everything Kafka wrote when I was in about the fifth grade. The Metamorphosis was pretty pathetic. I mean literally. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| Aqua Letifer | Nov 21 2012, 09:47 AM Post #35 |
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ZOOOOOM!
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Only to a certain point, though, right? 
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| I cite irreconcilable differences. | |
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| JBryan | Nov 21 2012, 09:48 AM Post #36 |
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I am the grey one
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Right. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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