Thanksgiving through the eyes of Native Americans

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Thanksgiving through the eyes of Native Americans
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 17 2012, 11:22 PM (739 Views)
Larry	Nov 17 2012, 11:22 PM Post #1
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTrbVf6SrCc&feature=related
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Larry	Nov 17 2012, 11:25 PM Post #2
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhzQV0NMhjg&feature=fvwrel
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


The 89th Key	Nov 18 2012, 02:01 PM Post #3
Posts: 36,249 Group: Moderators Member #209 Joined: May 19, 2005	Native Americans migrated to North America at some point too. Everyone's an immigrant if you trace it back far enough... and everyone's ancestors were linked to groups of people (whether explorers or tribes) that invaded and killed other groups for land. Tail as old as time... Now pass the stuffing and let's smoke a peace pipe together!



kenny	Nov 18 2012, 02:13 PM Post #4
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 35,599 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: April 19, 2005	Don't most if not all countries have ugly and "unfair" beginnings? But after the "birth" of a nation the world just flips a switch and recognizes the new country, (unless it's Israel). Past atrocities are just blown off because there is a new country to deal with now. The old entity is history. Might makes right. Always has.



Larry	Nov 18 2012, 02:59 PM Post #5
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	The 89th Key Nov 18 2012, 02:01 PM Native Americans migrated to North America at some point too. Everyone's an immigrant if you trace it back far enough... and everyone's ancestors were linked to groups of people (whether explorers or tribes) that invaded and killed other groups for land. Tail as old as time... Now pass the stuffing and let's smoke a peace pipe together! Between 19 million and 30 million Indians were slaughtered. By comparison, roughly 6 million Jews were slaughtered in the holocaust. Did you watch the second video? The events described happened recently enough for me to hear my grandparents talk about it as they talked about their own parents and grandparents. I agree to a point - it's in the past. But to take the view that "it happened to other groups too, so let's just forget it" is the very thing I am trying to make sure doesn't happen. US history wrote my people out. The US has never acknowledged what was done to the native american. Personally, I think that in itself is a crime.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Larry	Nov 18 2012, 03:01 PM Post #6
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	I wonder how easy it would be to write white people out if someone killed 90% of their people.....
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Steve Miller	Nov 18 2012, 03:01 PM Post #7
Bull-Carp Posts: 7,637 Group: Members Member #25 Joined: April 19, 2005	Larry Nov 18 2012, 02:59 PM The US has never acknowledged what was done to the native american. Personally, I think that in itself is a crime. Agreed. What sort of acknowledgement would you think appropriate?
	Wag more Bark less


Larry	Nov 18 2012, 03:03 PM Post #8
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	To simply teach the history of it in schools so today's kids know about it.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Larry	Nov 18 2012, 03:05 PM Post #9
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	Think of it as a sort of.... "You raped our women, you stole our children and raped them, you tried to kill our culture, you stole our land, you slaughtered us like animals... at least take the time to admit it..." Look at it this way: There's a seat at the table for the black man. There's a seat at the table for the Asian. There's a seat at the table for the Latino. But there's no seat at the table for the red man, and no one seems to even know he is there needing a seat. Edited by Larry, Nov 18 2012, 03:07 PM.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Larry	Nov 18 2012, 03:12 PM Post #10
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	But everyone please pardon me... I get this way every Thanksgiving as I and some of my family members get to thinking about how Thanksgiving was originally celebrated... by rolling the hacked off heads of the indians that were killed the night before down main street in a parade.....
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Amanda	Nov 18 2012, 03:22 PM Post #11
Senior Carp Posts: 2,409 Group: Members Member #100 Joined: April 20, 2005	Larry Nov 18 2012, 03:03 PM To simply teach the history of it in schools so today's kids know about it. This is a great idea. Does it still need implementation? What IS in the books today? I know how it stood when I was in elementary school (long time ago), but I would have thought the books had been drastically rewritten by now. That is, especially, considering how much PC has entered the picture since then - FWIW much to the ridicule overall of the right wing of US politics. Are you complaining without knowing what the books say nowadays, or do you know for a fact, that they are still seriously distorted? Again, I'd be really interested in knowing what they DO say. Also, how much this differs, from state to state. I still remember the happy First Thanksgiving Day illustrations in our text books - everyone all smiles and the Peace Pipe being passed around (for all I know, including the kids). Should the re-education occur more on Columbus Day or Thanksgiving Day? Having a day devoted to gratitude is surely a good thing, though it might be fitting to separate it more from actual history. OTOH as I get it now, Columbus is hardly the innocent and imaginative chap, I was taught.
	[size=5] We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.[/size] "Daily Telegraph", London July 27 2005


Mikhailoh	Nov 18 2012, 03:32 PM Post #12
If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead Posts: 92,842 Group: Members Member #181 Joined: April 26, 2005	Steve Miller Nov 18 2012, 03:01 PM Larry Nov 18 2012, 02:59 PM The US has never acknowledged what was done to the native american. Personally, I think that in itself is a crime. Agreed. What sort of acknowledgement would you think appropriate? Give 'em back California. It's screwed ayway.
	Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball


ivorythumper	Nov 18 2012, 04:21 PM Post #13
I am so adjective that I verb nouns! Posts: 50,666 Group: Members Member #164 Joined: April 24, 2005	Larry Nov 18 2012, 02:59 PM The 89th Key Nov 18 2012, 02:01 PM Native Americans migrated to North America at some point too. Everyone's an immigrant if you trace it back far enough... and everyone's ancestors were linked to groups of people (whether explorers or tribes) that invaded and killed other groups for land. Tail as old as time... Now pass the stuffing and let's smoke a peace pipe together! Between 19 million and 30 million Indians were slaughtered. By comparison, roughly 6 million Jews were slaughtered in the holocaust. Did you watch the second video? The events described happened recently enough for me to hear my grandparents talk about it as they talked about their own parents and grandparents. I agree to a point - it's in the past. But to take the view that "it happened to other groups too, so let's just forget it" is the very thing I am trying to make sure doesn't happen. US history wrote my people out. The US has never acknowledged what was done to the native american. Personally, I think that in itself is a crime. According to demographers, that number seems improbably high. All of the Western Hemisphere had perhaps 55MM, with N. America about 4MM in 1492 at the time of contact. See Table 1 on page xxviii for the summary. I agree that the treatment of the native people should be discussed openly and honestly. My own sense is that the reservation system is a huge crime against them, rather than encouraging the native people to assimilate into the dominant Western culture. It seems the reservation system, until the White Buffalo arrived with gambling money, was a system of perpetual poverty and marginalization and destroyed the dignity of the people. But I speak only as an outsider here.
	The dogma lives loudly within me.


Klaus	Nov 20 2012, 01:56 AM Post #14
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 19,403 Group: Members Member #350 Joined: May 21, 2006	Are there memorial places and/or museums whose purpose is to acknowledge the mischief against the Native Americans?
	Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman


Larry	Nov 20 2012, 05:25 AM Post #15
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	No. In fact, as you can see from the "statistics" IT has given us, everything that could be thought of to minimize or eliminate as much as possible from the record was done. It's easy - just reduce the numbers as much as possible, then excuse the rest by pointing to certain Supreme Court rulings, such as the Indian Removal Act.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


John D'Oh	Nov 20 2012, 05:44 AM Post #16
MAMIL Posts: 53,812 Group: Members Member #276 Joined: October 19, 2005	I think it's fair to say that if the deaths had been those of religious or ethnic minorities in Europe, considerably more fuss would be made about the crime, whether the number is 5 million or 20 million or 100 million. 5 million is still an atrocity on an almost unimaginable scale.
	What do you mean "we", have you got a mouse in your pocket?


Renauda	Nov 20 2012, 06:23 AM Post #17
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 10,507 Group: Members Member #505 Joined: September 5, 2007	For Americans, Indians were enemies to be defeated. For Canadians, Aboriginal peoples were allies to be betrayed. As Pierre Trudeau reportedly told Marlon Brando in 1978, �There are differences in the way we treated our Natives. You hunted them down and murdered them. We starved them to death.� ~ http://walrusmagazine.com/articles/2012.03-essay-that-time-we-beat-the-americans/3/



Luke's Dad	Nov 20 2012, 07:03 AM Post #18
Emperor Pengin Posts: 25,632 Group: Members Member #8 Joined: April 18, 2005	I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but much of the decimation of the aboriginals in North America was inadvertent and due to disease carried by the Europeans, to which the native population had no immunities or defenses.
	The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.


Larry	Nov 20 2012, 07:12 AM Post #19
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4505
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Renauda	Nov 20 2012, 08:17 AM Post #20
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 10,507 Group: Members Member #505 Joined: September 5, 2007	Luke's Dad Nov 20 2012, 07:03 AM I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but much of the decimation of the aboriginals in North America was inadvertent and due to disease carried by the Europeans, to which the native population had no immunities or defenses. Deliberately infecting blankets with smallpox virus and lacing distilled spirit with strychnine and arsenic for trade with the Aboriginals was not inadvertent.



big al	Nov 20 2012, 09:01 AM Post #21
Bull-Carp Posts: 9,879 Group: Members Member #38 Joined: April 19, 2005	Larry Nov 20 2012, 07:12 AM http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4505 Are you suggesting that you agree with the metally ill liberals organizing this protest? From the source's website... Quote: CampusReform.org is designed to provide conservative activists with the resources, networking capabilities, and skills they need to revolutionize the struggle against leftist bias and abuse on college campuses. Created to give conservatives powerful new weapons in their fight for the hearts and minds of the next generation of citizens, politicians, and members of the media, CampusReform.org facilitates the establishment of conservative student networks and supports their development as a powerful voice of activism on their campuses. It makes available new opportunities for groups� interaction with alumni, parents, faculty, and other members of the broader community interested in taking a stand for conservative principles on America�s college campuses. Connecting up-to-date communications technologies to a principled stand for limited government, the free market, national defense, and traditional values, CampusReform.org makes possible a new generation of student activism to identify, expose, and combat the radical left now. Big Al
	Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile


Friday	Nov 20 2012, 09:15 AM Post #22
Senior Carp Posts: 2,481 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: April 18, 2005	When my children were taught about the history of the state (California), the Native Americans were always a big part of that. In fact, they had to do reports on Native Americans for 3 years.



Klaus	Nov 20 2012, 12:52 PM Post #23
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 19,403 Group: Members Member #350 Joined: May 21, 2006	How much about this part of American history is typically taught at American schools? Over here, people are so worried that we will forget what happened between 1933 and 1945 that they banged it into our heads in almost every history class of my school career.
	Trifonov Fleisher Klaus Sokolov Zimmerman


Dave Spelvin	Nov 20 2012, 01:58 PM Post #24
Fulla-Carp Posts: 2,582 Group: Members Member #208 Joined: May 18, 2005	Quote: Tail as old as time You mean this? Spoiler: click to toggle Leaving aside my silliness for a moment, I've never understood the acceptance of the tormented of elements of their tormentors. Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn wear the clothing of the Polish aristocrats who tormented them. Black people call each other nigga, the slur used by their oppressors. And on our own board, we have Larry, a proud native American, who has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal lord and savior, the very lord and savior of the white Europeans who slaughtered his people by the millions. I would think that the very beautiful gods of Larry's ancestors were worth preserving along with the history of their struggles. But what do I know. My Episcopalian mother married a Jew. I'm not sure which of them should have known better.



Aqua Letifer	Nov 20 2012, 02:04 PM Post #25
ZOOOOOM! Posts: 45,901 Group: Members Member #262 Joined: September 22, 2005	Dave Spelvin Nov 20 2012, 01:58 PM Black people call each other nigga, the slur used by their oppressors. Taking the word away from their oppressors and adopting it as one used exclusively by them takes its power away. Anyway that's just my theory. Words carry a great deal of weight with them sometimes.
	I cite irreconcilable differences.

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