The Corporate Blackmailing of America is Now All the Rage

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The Corporate Blackmailing of America is Now All the Rage
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 15 2012, 09:43 AM (2,026 Views)
kathyk	Nov 16 2012, 02:33 PM Post #101
Pisa-Carp Posts: 7,334 Group: Members Member #115 Joined: April 22, 2005	Point by point as in all umpteen zillion pages? No. The general idea of a mandate was a conservative idea - meaning everyone would be covered. What more do you need? That's what Mitt Romney initiated in Mass. Until the Republicans became hostage to the fringe, this was an idea they embraced. It's not an idea liberals embraced. We wanted a universal system that would be free of insurance companies dipping in and that would have given the govt mass bargaining power for prescription drugs. That, of course, was dashed by conservatives, so now we have the mishmash known as ACA qua Obamacare. Not a great system, but it's what the conservatives would allow.
	Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/


Copper	Nov 16 2012, 02:47 PM Post #102
Shortstop Posts: 29,905 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	kathyk Nov 16 2012, 02:33 PM but it's what the conservatives would allow. hahahahahahahahahaha
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


OperaTenor	Nov 16 2012, 03:13 PM Post #103
Pisa-Carp Posts: 6,254 Group: Members Member #348 Joined: May 18, 2006	Copper Nov 16 2012, 02:08 PM OperaTenor Nov 16 2012, 01:59 PM Taiwan was able to go from a system much like ours, to a system that provided access for everyone - affordably - where providers and patients alike were happy with it, in six months. Not rocket surgery. Instead of making statements like that why not just take quick look at the wiki? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Taiwan There are at least two sides to every story. Saying something like providers and patients were "happy" after 6 months just reveals an obvious, indefensible prejudice. Whoever wrote the "Problems" section doesn't have a firm grasp on sentence structure, let alone the facts. I have a lot of friends in Taiwan, including doctors, and we've discussed their current system at length. I stand by my assertion.



Copper	Nov 16 2012, 03:46 PM Post #104
Shortstop Posts: 29,905 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	OperaTenor Nov 16 2012, 03:13 PM Whoever wrote the "Problems" section doesn't have a firm grasp on sentence structure, let alone the facts. I have a lot of friends in Taiwan, including doctors, and we've discussed their current system at length. I stand by my assertion. Wiki allows updates to articles like this. You should add your friends to the References section at the bottom. Or at a minimum you should give it a low Trustworthy rating in the Rate this Page section. Be sure to check the "I am highly knowledgeable about this topic (optional)" box.
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


Larry	Nov 16 2012, 08:12 PM Post #105
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	My gosh Kathy, you can't get anything right.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


ivorythumper	Nov 16 2012, 09:22 PM Post #106
I am so adjective that I verb nouns! Posts: 50,666 Group: Members Member #164 Joined: April 24, 2005	kathyk Nov 16 2012, 02:33 PM Point by point as in all umpteen zillion pages? No. The general idea of a mandate was a conservative idea - meaning everyone would be covered. What more do you need? That's what Mitt Romney initiated in Mass. Until the Republicans became hostage to the fringe, this was an idea they embraced. You probably never even heard the phrase "the devil is in the details", huh? Srsly, Kathy -- the way this is being bandied about as if it were the same thing (which it would have to be for the Democrat argument to be intellectually honest, but I really don't expect that sort of scrupulosity when there are political points to me gained) makes me intuitively suspicious. Thanks for clarifying that it really seems to be a massively sweeping generalization and you really don't know if it is the same sort of thing. I appreciate your honesty.
	The dogma lives loudly within me.


Steve Miller	Nov 16 2012, 10:19 PM Post #107
Bull-Carp Posts: 7,637 Group: Members Member #25 Joined: April 19, 2005	ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 09:17 AM There are all other sorts of solutions that are more practical (such as the Dutch model) that no one seems to be interested in -- the recourse for the Left is immediately to the centralized, bureaucratic, monopolistic, collectivist government model. That's another way to go, but the fact is that every time an employer (like me) declines to pay health benefits, taxpayers like you end up picking up the tab. Let me say that I, for one, appreciate your generosity.
	Wag more Bark less


OperaTenor	Nov 16 2012, 10:29 PM Post #108
Pisa-Carp Posts: 6,254 Group: Members Member #348 Joined: May 18, 2006	Steve Miller Nov 16 2012, 10:19 PM ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 09:17 AM There are all other sorts of solutions that are more practical (such as the Dutch model) that no one seems to be interested in -- the recourse for the Left is immediately to the centralized, bureaucratic, monopolistic, collectivist government model. That's another way to go, but the fact is that every time an employer (like me) declines to pay health benefits, taxpayers like you end up picking up the tab. Let me say that I, for one, appreciate your generosity. It's this same mentality, Steve.



Jolly	Nov 17 2012, 05:30 AM Post #109
Geaux Tigers! Posts: 47,617 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 19, 2005	And in other news, since receiving their Medicaid reimbursement charts 11/1, my wife's office has decided to let all of their Medicaid pediatric opthamology patients go. Next closest guy is 120 miles away. Or 190, take your pick. When they raise Hell about no local physician, the staff just tells them to thank Obamacare.
	*The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.*- George Soros


Copper	Nov 17 2012, 07:24 AM Post #110
Shortstop Posts: 29,905 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	Steve Miller Nov 16 2012, 10:19 PM That's another way to go, but the fact is that every time an employer (like me) declines to pay health benefits, taxpayers like you end up picking up the tab. Not really. Anyone is free to buy as much or as little health insurance as they want or can afford. I have been buying my own health insurance for many years. It works just fine with no government involvement. This system is similar to the way people buy food, clothing or shelter. You can do it too. A place to start is here: http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ A few clicks and you can find individual plans starting under $200 per month. The cheapest I found was $168.05.
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


Steve Miller	Nov 17 2012, 09:19 AM Post #111
Bull-Carp Posts: 7,637 Group: Members Member #25 Joined: April 19, 2005	Copper Nov 17 2012, 07:24 AM A few clicks and you can find individual plans starting under $200 per month. The cheapest I found was $168.05. Which puts a family of three at something like 100% of what a minimum wage breadwinner (like the ones who work for the pizza place) would bring home if they worked 40 hours per week. Never mind 30 hour weeks, deductibles, medications, or pre-existing conditions. Not gonna happen, and you are paying for it. Not only that, you are paying a LOT for it as most of these people have to rely on emergency rooms - among the most expensive places in a hospital - for care. You could, of course, require that everyone get insurance so regular taxpayers like you don't end up paying those hospital bills. Like the ACA.
	Wag more Bark less


Steve Miller	Nov 17 2012, 09:20 AM Post #112
Bull-Carp Posts: 7,637 Group: Members Member #25 Joined: April 19, 2005	Jolly Nov 17 2012, 05:30 AM And in other news, since receiving their Medicaid reimbursement charts 11/1, my wife's office has decided to let all of their Medicaid pediatric opthamology patients go. Next closest guy is 120 miles away. Or 190, take your pick. When they raise Hell about no local physician, the staff just tells them to thank Obamacare. Sounds like an opportunity for a new guy to move in and take over the business.
	Wag more Bark less


Jolly	Nov 17 2012, 09:50 AM Post #113
Geaux Tigers! Posts: 47,617 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 19, 2005	Steve Miller Nov 17 2012, 09:20 AM Jolly Nov 17 2012, 05:30 AM And in other news, since receiving their Medicaid reimbursement charts 11/1, my wife's office has decided to let all of their Medicaid pediatric opthamology patients go. Next closest guy is 120 miles away. Or 190, take your pick. When they raise Hell about no local physician, the staff just tells them to thank Obamacare. Sounds like an opportunity for a new guy to move in and take over the business. If you know of someone who can out-business a guy who has built a multi-million dollar practice from the ground up and sits on the boards of two banks, shoot me a PM and I'll give you some particulars. OTOH, maybe we can spread this Obamacare-type thinking to other business types...I'm sure as a contractor you have no problem with hanging lights for $2/each or putting in receptacles for $1. Oh...you can charge whatever you like, but that's all you're gonna get paid.
	*The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.*- George Soros


ivorythumper	Nov 17 2012, 10:01 AM Post #114
I am so adjective that I verb nouns! Posts: 50,666 Group: Members Member #164 Joined: April 24, 2005	Steve Miller Nov 16 2012, 10:19 PM ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 09:17 AM There are all other sorts of solutions that are more practical (such as the Dutch model) that no one seems to be interested in -- the recourse for the Left is immediately to the centralized, bureaucratic, monopolistic, collectivist government model. That's another way to go, but the fact is that every time an employer (like me) declines to pay health benefits, taxpayers like you end up picking up the tab. Let me say that I, for one, appreciate your generosity. You pick it up in your own taxes too, Steve, so just go ahead and pat yourself on the back. Just don't break your arm doing it unless you're covered. But actually, even what you said is false -- a lot of people get their own insurance or use other methods such as cooperatives like Samaritan for self insurance. You seem to accept that free riders are acceptable and you want to pay for them -- a lot of people are actually responsible individuals and take this obligation for their own health care seriously.
	The dogma lives loudly within me.


Copper	Nov 17 2012, 10:08 AM Post #115
Shortstop Posts: 29,905 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	Steve Miller Nov 17 2012, 09:19 AM 100% of what a minimum wage breadwinner (like the ones who work for the pizza place) would bring home if they worked 40 hours per week. http://www.dol.gov/whd/minimumwage.htm 40 X $7.25 = 290 per week X 52 weeks = 15,080 Insurance $168 per month - 168 X 12 = 2,016 = 13% of 15,080 13% is a lot less than 100% Still no bargain, and I'm, not against help poor people if they can't help themselves. You can invent all the scary stories you want about extreme cases. But I believe the fact is that for most people health insurance is available and affordable.
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


Red Rice	Nov 17 2012, 10:57 AM Post #116
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 10,491 Group: Members Member #447 Joined: April 12, 2007	Steve Miller Nov 17 2012, 09:20 AM Jolly Nov 17 2012, 05:30 AM And in other news, since receiving their Medicaid reimbursement charts 11/1, my wife's office has decided to let all of their Medicaid pediatric opthamology patients go. Next closest guy is 120 miles away. Or 190, take your pick. When they raise Hell about no local physician, the staff just tells them to thank Obamacare. Sounds like an opportunity for a new guy to move in and take over the business. Most practices lose money on Medicaid patients. No way you could build a business on it. Where I used to work in the States, only one in three specialists accepted it. I'm sure the ratio has gone down since.
	Civilisation, I vaguely realized then - and subsequent observation has confirmed the view - could not progress that way. It must have a greater guiding principle to survive. To treat it as a carcase off which each man tears as much as he can for himself, is to stand convicted a brute, fit for nothing better than a jungle existence, which is a death-struggle, leading nowhither. I did not believe that was the human destiny, for Man individually was sane and reasonable, only collectively a fool. I hope the gunner of that Hun two-seater shot him clean, bullet to heart, and that his plane, on fire, fell like a meteor through the sky he loved. Since he had to end, I hope he ended so. But, oh, the waste! The loss! - Cecil Lewis


kathyk	Nov 17 2012, 05:36 PM Post #117
Pisa-Carp Posts: 7,334 Group: Members Member #115 Joined: April 22, 2005	ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 09:22 PM kathyk Nov 16 2012, 02:33 PM Point by point as in all umpteen zillion pages? No. The general idea of a mandate was a conservative idea - meaning everyone would be covered. What more do you need? That's what Mitt Romney initiated in Mass. Until the Republicans became hostage to the fringe, this was an idea they embraced. You probably never even heard the phrase "the devil is in the details", huh? Srsly, Kathy -- the way this is being bandied about as if it were the same thing (which it would have to be for the Democrat argument to be intellectually honest, but I really don't expect that sort of scrupulosity when there are political points to me gained) makes me intuitively suspicious. Thanks for clarifying that it really seems to be a massively sweeping generalization and you really don't know if it is the same sort of thing. I appreciate your honesty. No the devils' not in the details. The individual mandate - the thing that the wingers fought all the way to the Supreme Court - that was from the the Heritage Foundation and formed the basis of Romney-care. It was a conservative idea. The liberal formation would have been universal care. We ended up going with the conservative model in compromise. Honestly, the denial here is astounding. Edited by kathyk, Nov 17 2012, 05:38 PM.
	Blogging in Palestine: http://kksjournal.com/


Larry	Nov 17 2012, 07:43 PM Post #118
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	It's not a matter of denial, idiot. It's a matter of you not knowing what the hell you're talking about.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Copper	Nov 17 2012, 07:44 PM Post #119
Shortstop Posts: 29,905 Group: Members Member #426 Joined: February 14, 2007	kathyk Nov 17 2012, 05:36 PM We ended up going with the conservative model in compromise. There was no model. There was certainly no compromise. "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it"
	The Confederate soldier was peculiar in that he was ever ready to fight, but never ready to submit to the routine duty and discipline of the camp or the march. The soldiers were determined to be soldiers after their own notions, and do their duty, for the love of it, as they thought best. Carlton McCarthy


ivorythumper	Nov 17 2012, 11:14 PM Post #120
I am so adjective that I verb nouns! Posts: 50,666 Group: Members Member #164 Joined: April 24, 2005	kathyk Nov 17 2012, 05:36 PM ivorythumper Nov 16 2012, 09:22 PM kathyk Nov 16 2012, 02:33 PM Point by point as in all umpteen zillion pages? No. The general idea of a mandate was a conservative idea - meaning everyone would be covered. What more do you need? That's what Mitt Romney initiated in Mass. Until the Republicans became hostage to the fringe, this was an idea they embraced. You probably never even heard the phrase "the devil is in the details", huh? Srsly, Kathy -- the way this is being bandied about as if it were the same thing (which it would have to be for the Democrat argument to be intellectually honest, but I really don't expect that sort of scrupulosity when there are political points to me gained) makes me intuitively suspicious. Thanks for clarifying that it really seems to be a massively sweeping generalization and you really don't know if it is the same sort of thing. I appreciate your honesty. No the devils' not in the details. The individual mandate - the thing that the wingers fought all the way to the Supreme Court - that was from the the Heritage Foundation and formed the basis of Romney-care. It was a conservative idea. The liberal formation would have been universal care. We ended up going with the conservative model in compromise. Honestly, the denial here is astounding. Kathy: the obvious problem with your claim is that had you gone with the conservative model it would have looked like the Republican plan. But it looks NOTHING like the Republican plan, so we KNOW that you are wrong about this. I honestly don't see how you can assert such obviously problematic claims with either a straight face or from a position of actual knowledge.
	The dogma lives loudly within me.


JBryan	Nov 18 2012, 01:05 AM Post #121
I am the grey one Posts: 28,082 Group: Members Member #32 Joined: April 19, 2005	It sure is funny how the conservative model did not get a single Republican vote. Some compromise.
	"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter.


Steve Miller	Nov 18 2012, 09:02 AM Post #122
Bull-Carp Posts: 7,637 Group: Members Member #25 Joined: April 19, 2005	Jolly Nov 17 2012, 09:50 AM multi-million dollar practice ... sits on the boards of two banks That happens when you don't have any competition. Sounds like the new guy would have a good shot at picking up a lot of the patients with insurance as well, But I'm more intrigued by what Larry told us - that he would trade only at Papa John's pizza from now on because Papa treats his employees poorly. I'm in Orange County, we have a lot of Republicans here and there may be a market for exactly this sort of approach. But how do you sell it? And how do you keep the help from spitting on the pizzas?
	Wag more Bark less


Axtremus	Nov 18 2012, 09:17 AM Post #123
HOLY CARP!!! Posts: 35,700 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: April 18, 2005	JBryan Nov 18 2012, 01:05 AM It sure is funny how the conservative model did not get a single Republican vote. Some compromise. Because Republicans have gone from Conservatism to Obstructionism.



Larry	Nov 18 2012, 09:19 AM Post #124
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	Quote: But I'm more intrigued by what Larry told us - that he would trade only at Papa John's pizza from now on because Papa treats his employees poorly. Where did I say I would trade only with Papa Johns, and where did I say I would trade with Papa Johns because they treat their employees poorly? For that matter, where do you get the notion that Papa Johns is treating their employees poorly?
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe


Larry	Nov 18 2012, 09:20 AM Post #125
Mmmmmmm, pie! Posts: 47,996 Group: Members Member #113 Joined: April 22, 2005	Axtremus Nov 18 2012, 09:17 AM JBryan Nov 18 2012, 01:05 AM It sure is funny how the conservative model did not get a single Republican vote. Some compromise. Because Republicans have gone from Conservatism to Obstructionism. Classic example of projecting. Republicans aren't the obstructionists.
	Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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